Ironically, my own mother was a teen mother when I was born; she happened to have the distinction over some of the present-day teen moms of being married to my father. This was in 1963 that they married, and 1964 when I was born. (Yes, I am well past the age of being a teen parent; in fact I have no children of my own.)
What I want to know, and maybe someone has already asked this, is if these "babies having babies" have ever been exposed to sex education. I mean REAL SEX ED, where they would have learned what causes babies, how babies are born, and the fact that a baby is statistically unlikely to "make" the father of the baby stay with them. In many cases, an unwed couple that conceives leads to a baby born to a single mother who winds up struggling all her life, unless she gives the baby up for adoption. This is difficult enough for a woman who has a partner, let alone a young girl who gets pregnant by a boy who then disappears -- never to be found -- upon learning that she is expecting. Once the boy disappears, full consent for the adoption is just about impossible, since he needs to sign away his parental rights in order for the adoption to proceed, unless they are severed in a court room -- yet another difficult step for a teen who just gave birth to deal with.
Teens should keep on going to school and learn more about themselves, people, cultures, world and life.
I was actually looking for this resource a few weeks back.
Calcium Disodium EDTA
"What is daily life like for these teens as they become parents (long before the world considers them grown-ups)?"
My mind has hovering around that for a long time. While "the world" considers them to not be grownups, evolution has made them capable of being parents right after puberty. That's a weird contradiction isn't it? What, seven or eight years difference?
And psychology says that humans aren't fully mentally developed until the early twenties.
So why is the view of the world (western anyway) so completely out of alignment with evolution? Was control of marriage and age of marriage turned into a method of rulers controlling people by fear and guilt-tripping, as in the longer the authorities make people hold off on sex and/or marriage the more tension and fear is built up in the controlled person making them susceptible to guilt-tripping and shame?
I wonder if some sociologists and religionists have studied that out.
I know little about evolution, but has the age at which pregnancy is possible changed? Can you get pregnant at a younger age now? An older age? It seems like this would be important to know in order to draw conclusions regarding evolution and pregnancy. Then of course there are the environmental variables of modern life.
Aren't there also all kinds of things that evolution has created which we wish were better or wish we could change? Most of us want to live longer. Most of us want better bodies, better features, better eyesight, more powerful hearing.... or want to fly. Why do we have the capacity for this "want" if it is in conflict with what evolution has provided? If there is so much about evolution we would like to change, who is to say that the age at which you can conceive is good or bad? Perhaps, it is simply the age thus far. Maybe, evolution hasn't gotten around to modifying it. Maybe, evolution cooked up the capacity for religion to modify the conception age mentally rather then physically (yes, that's a bit much). Maybe, it is a safety check in case a super-bug whacks us all, so we can quickly repopulate planet earth. Or maybe, the age is just great where it is? Who knows?
Good brainstorming session, Scottmil.
One of the things I like about science is that someone always comes along and questions the current theories about explaining why things are the way they are. They go back and question the basic assumptions that current beliefs are built upon.
It could be that over time, adults have learned that having babies at too young an age is not a good idea because the parents are not well enough developed psychologically to be responsible and competent parents. I can imagine the village grayhairs getting together and talking about kids having babies too early and then coming up with various rules and taboos against it. Maybe that's why marriage was invented. There could be some interesting history to this.
I understand that puberty is occurring earlier now because of better nutrition. And I think that has changed in just over some fifty years.
My mother was 13 when she became pregnant, 14 when I was born. I think a lot of the time people forget about the children of teen parents and focus a lot on the parents of the teens and the teens themselves. I still to this day have never heard of a scholarship for a child of a teen parent for instance, but there is an enormous amount for the teen parents themselves (not to detract from teen parent scholarships, which are worthwhile for sure). I am almost done with college so I could care less about getting something like that for myself, but I think it would be a great thing for future teen-parented children. That is just one of many examples of the children of teen parents 'falling through the cracks'.
As for my mom, she decided to go to high school and graduated. She currently works for the State of Oregon as a Human Resources Manager. By all accounts she is successful. I can not begin to describe the sacrifices she had to make to not only get her where she is today, but to also get me to where I am today. While other teen mothers where dropping out of school and going on welfare, my mom stuck to her studies and basically sacrificed all social activities to work at night. She truly is amazing.
I'm glad these women chose life for their children.
I really am interested to hear the conversation this morning, but I have no questions to ask. Instead, I wish to follow an old tradition (both an Irish cultural one and a personal/family one) and offer a blessing to these mothers, their children, and the many more like them:
May you find each day filled with
enough music of life to calm your way,
twice the strength you need to meet your struggles,
thrice the patience you hope for when stressed,
four times the friendship needed to overwhelm loneliness,
and an unending supply of overflowing Love that floods your hearts and homes...
(btw, the blessing is unique... written just for these folks)
It is relly the other way around, it means that God loves us so much that he gave us free will in order to do what we want.
Just kidding, tpohara, it looks like this topic just didn't generate much interest.
Maybe the teen parents are way too busy being parents to give much time to this blog and topic.
You expected something else? :p
Seriously, I'm sure there will be more activity in the morning.
You were right, there was a lot more activity. I guess we can retire your old "threadkiller" label.
May you keep your clothes on
and not have underage sex
May you not be suprised when you get an underage girl pregnant
May you not be suprised to find youself pregnant when you have sex
And may the good Lord give you the resources to pay for the consequences of your actions
And the peace of mind and clarity to not expect the rest of us to pay for the cost of rearing your child.
(This blessing is unique... written just for these folks)
Apparently your "good Lord" screwed up and gave "these folks" the ability to reproduce right after puberty but your "good Lord" didn't give them a fully developed brain with which to make wise and informed decisions until their early twenties.
Apparently "intelligent design", is not actually intelligent.
Your "good Lord" screwed up really badly!
(Why not google up the meaning of "Compassion", it's really not a hard concept to learn.)
I am curious why teens choose to keep their babies; why not give them up for adoption? And then, would they choose differently having gone through this? I appreciate that they didn't choose abortion.
I wasn't a teen parent, but close enough. I got pregnant at 22, not married to the father who I had been with only a brief time (we've been together ever since). I was not a teenager, nor a drop out. I had recently graduated from college, but nonetheless, I was treated with such a sense of dread and horror by others. I remember people apologizing to me, seemingly attempting to confirm just how tragic my situation was.
I was shocked that even a level-headed, degree-holding, job-having 22 year old was treated much in the same way I imagine a teen mother is treated when they hear this news from the school nurse. The first question I was often asked was when we were getting married. In this day and age, I found that ridiculous.
Perhaps if we stopped treating those who get in this situation with such pity and tragic awe, they would feel more capable of the task ahead of them. It took a great deal of self-confidence for me to get through those 9 months with the belief that I (and my baby and her father) was going to be alright. I imagine for a teen, in high school, maybe even college, under their parents' wing, this is probably magnified to degrees that have extremely negative effects.
As an advocate for youth in a rural county in Oregon, I find that most of the teens I see, want accurate information regarding sexuality. We as parents need to trust that what we have taught our children in regards to values, morals, and sexuality will be used as the filter to all of the other information they are bombarded with from the media and their peers.
Don't be afraid for our children to learn the facts about sexuality, safe sex, STIs, and relationships. Why can't we trust what we have taught our children? Knowledge is power to make informed decisions.
Cindy, age 40
P.S. I was also a teen mother at 16, and for me, more information would have made a huge difference. Instead, as most teens do, I asked my friends and was given false information and myths.
Did you ever think of not having sex at age 16?
Humans evolved to have sex right after puberty and that is usually sooner than 16 years old.
And humans evolved to not be fully mentally developed until their early twenties, so your idea of "thinking" at 16 is off base.
I was pregnant at 14. I had a son at 15, an abortion at 17, a daughter at 18, and another son days after I turned 22. Today, all three are in college, I'm finishing a Master's Degree, and all turned out well. I'm happily married, am a homeowner and I own my own business. There were some really hard times when the kids were small and I was a single parent but getting through those times and succeeding was not unlike anything other endeavor. Every experience, good and bad, is an opportunity to learn and grow. I've always looked at everything that way. I'm 40 now and my kids are 18, 21, and 25. I couldn't be prouder of them. They are amazing people.
I think this morning's conversations will offer some insight.
I'm very curious to know what kind of sex education was offered to the young mothers before they became pregnant. I graduated from high school in 2003, and I found the "abstinence plus" education being offered by the my (public) school significantly lacking in terms of application.
It's not a question of right or wrong so far as teen mothers go, but rather a question of what resources were, and are, available for teens so far as education is concerned. Assuming that this morning's guests also attended public schools, do they feel as though appropriate information was provided?
I'm curious. Did their parents talk to them about sex and birth control? If they had, do they think things would have turned out differently? Will they talk to their kids about sex and try to keep their kids from becoming parents when they are young?
What about the Education and Financial consequences of this young pregnancy?
One of the guests touched on not finishing high school, while some of the parents finish high school even less go to or graduate college. How does this affect short and long term financial stability?
I wonder if abstinence only sex ed has anything to do w/ the rise in teen pregnancies.
What kind of sex ed, health and family, or parenting classes did these teens receive?
I was a freshman in college and 18 years old when I found out that I was 6 months pregnant. Although I was a successful student and active in the community, I had never felt so much judgement and shame in my life. With my baby, I did decide to follow through with an open adoption. Although I felt that this was a smart and the right thing to do, when I told people that was what I was doing individuals thought it was there right to comment rudely on my decision. On the other hand, the father was basically given a free ride, and was treated as though he had nothing to do with it.
Now I see my son often, and just three weeks ago he was ring bearer in my wedding. I am glad that I chose adoption, but it was the hardest thing that I believe anyone can follow through with.
I hope that this program helps the community to realize that teen moms are not stupid and careless, but are often thoughtful and smart individuals.
You found out you were six months pregnant - like what that was a shock to you - you thought that having sex would add an extra glow to your skin or make the flowers in your garden grow better - you just woke up one morning and 'found' yourself knocked up ?
could having a teen pregnancy change your view of abortion? what do they think of it now?
Why is abortion such a dirty word? It is still legal! Thank goodness! Yet the fact that these children having children doesn't seem to shock any one? Kids who think a 'long term' relationship with a boyfriend is 5 months! Does this not concern anyone?
Also who does the primary care taking for the babies? I bet it's their own mothers!
This is a very sad situation, we should not be so dang proud of these teens for becoming parents when they certainly don't have to.
I'm a bit confused by the line of thought. Both young women clearly stated that abortion had been asked about as options... and they chose to let the baby live. It almost sounds as if a suggestion is being made that they should have been forced to terminate their child's life. Wouldn't that make the suggested position "pro-abortion" and "anti-choice" at the same time?
What education/talks with parents or respected elders do these young women think would have helped them prevent these unwanted pregnancies? More/less at school, more frank discussions with parents? I am very curious as I am about to become a 1st time father in a couple days.
In 1956, as an infant, I was given up for adoption in Paris, France. I was adopted by an American couple and raised in the US after living with them in Europe for the first six years of my life. As I became a teenager, I felt increasingly disconnected from my parents and, I believe, subconsciously attempted to recreated the situation surrounding my relinquishment by getting pregnant at age 17. I wanted to have a child, be a mother and "do the right thing". I wanted a real family and someone to connect with. I married my boyfriend, we had three more children and were divorced after seventeen years of married. My youngest daughter got pregnant at age sixteen, gave her child up for adoption and has since married and has three children. My point - having a child while you are a child, whether you choose to raise your baby, or give it up for adoption, will most likely have ramifications that can last a life time.
What an amazingly astute comment! Thank you for sharing your experience.
There are two aspects of this conversation that I have not heard discussed (not very much anyway). #1 Where are the fathers of these children? Once again, the mom is the sole provider? It was the same way 40 years ago when my friends got pregnant "out of wedlock", the girl was the one blamed and shamed. #2 How are these young women going to financially care for these kids? Especially if they have no high school diploma. We citizins end up paying for them, in the long run. Also, what is their plan for the future of their children? Do they have medical insurance to help pay for the cost of the medical care for them?
I understand the oops factor, "it won't happen to me" but I remember the huge issue of birth control when I was first sexually active. We were so completely freaked out by the thought of pregnancy we always protected ourselves. And yes, it was the girl's responsibility to provide the birth control (another topic!)
thanks for listening
I disagree that it was the same, even if one's personal experience was similar. Obviously, it has always been more difficult for the person who actually bears the child. Men always had a better chance of avoiding responsibility. However, in cases where it was clear who the father was, there were expectations that have almost entirely vanished, making the mother's position even worse.
I wanted to answer the question of birth control discussion with the teen moms. I can say that we did have that conversation many times. I was going to force her onto birth control at one point but she said that she would talk to me before she decided to have sex. I have always talked very openly with her about sexuality.
She did mention that it was time to get on birth control, and we talked about it, but it was less then two weeks later she found out she was pregnant. I should have been more pro-active, I should have done alot of things. However, those shoulds can't change anything now.
For those interested, I kept a blog of her entire pregnancy and the ups and downs the two of us (and the babys father) endured. You can find it at www.mybabysbaby.blogspot.com
Listening to Dana, I hear her saying its all her moms fault. I mean she has said it a few times of if my mom was in my life I would not be here. Its not your moms fualt.
Dana kept saying that her mom was not there for her and so she got into trouble.
Some versions of religion teach that children will naturally be bad if they are not watched over constantly. I suggest that that is the wrong thing to teach a child if you want them to be good when you're not around. I suspect that Dana was raised under some version of that idea.
But really that idea came from religion and it is the religion that is at fault and not the parent or the daughter.
Dana is not saying it is her mother's fault! I believe that she is trying to get the point accross that it is a parents job to be involved in their child's life. A 15 year old does not have the brain capacity to make logical, rational decisions. Even more so if the parent has not taught the child what a logical and racional decision is. And at any age a man or a women who is about to raise a child needs a support system. At 16 years old the parents/parent needs to be that support system for the pregnant teen. How is a teen suppose to learn what path to take with out someone guiding them, and showing by example? Jamie's mother was there for her the whole way. She supported her daughter and her decision and help guide her to the healthy path and held her hand the whole way. A teenager just does not have the psycological ability to know that if they don't go back to school now, if they don't work hard now, if they don't stay away from bad influences they will be in transitional housing and on welfare in 5 years. Someone (their parents/parent) needs to tell them that, and help them to make those positive steps toward success. Do you think that Dana decided at 16 that she wanted to be on welfare in transitional houseing, with her daughter, with no education? Ofcourse not, she just didn't know then that there would be consequences to her actions, because her entire life there was no consequences! I'm not saying I think it was her mother's fault that she got pregnant. But I do beleive that if Dana had the support that Jamia had, she may be in a different place right now. I know Dana personally from a program she is involved in, called Pathfinder Academy. And what she didn't mention is all the things she is doing for herself and her daughter now.... She just graduated from an extensive 48 hour parenting class with perfect attendance, she is a few months away from getting her GED. She will then be going to college and she is in the process of finding a home for herself and her daughter. Right now she has people that care surrounding her, providing her that support that every parent needs. That, plus motivation, and dedication is what will help her overcome being a teen mom.
I think it's great that you have these parents on the show but i have to say, after working with teen parents for four years, Jamie's situation with supportive parents who can afford to buy her a car, and who can finish shcool is the anomaly and not the rule. Dana's situation is much more realistic. I think it would be more important to really delve into the problems and challenges of being a teen parent, who more often than not, have experienced sexual abuse (statistics support this), and have been or will be in poverty.
The other thing that i want to add is that i think it is a shame that Insights Teen Parent Program was not brought into this conversation. This Portland Agency has been around for the better part of 30 years (i can't remember exactly how long) and they could have hooked you up with a wealth of teens to talk about what it's like to be teen parents, as well as discuss the resources that have been, and currently are, available to teen parents. They are the only agency in the area (i think maybe even in the state) that deals specifically with this population. It is a real shame you did not do some research on who else could add to this conversation.
I am so thankful to OPB for starting this discussion. In regards to Oregon programs that serve pregnant and parenting teens, I wanted to let you know about a nonprofit in Eugene. I co-founded Doulas Supporting Teens (www.doulassupportingteens.org), which was created to support and educate pregnant and parenting teens through prenatal education, labor support by a professional doula, postnatal home visits, as well as childbirth education class geared toward teens and parenting groups - all free of charge to the client. In the five plus years I have worked with pregnant teens, one thing is clear, they are as diverse a group as pregnant adults! Supporting them through the process of pregnancy, birth and early parenting has a profound impact, as it does for mothers of all ages. But just as we do not judge someone by their race, religion, or ethnicity, we should not judge others by their life experiences.
I was a very young mother I was just 21 years old and I was then married at 24 and then had twins. Unfortunately the marriage didn't work out but we remained very close for the children. I have three very successful daughters who have all graduated from University and two on for their masters and my oldest has travel extensively in south America and was in the peace corp.
I continued my education and very early on took many parenting classes not only to learn but to have a network system to talk to. I always did and took my children everywhere they really didn't stop me from living my dreams. I worked full-time like many (older) mothers do today. I wouldn't change a things I have wonderful adult children they are my closest friends today.
I also find there was a benifit to being so young youth gave me the energy to keep up with my three young daughters.
I think the sex ed theme is a red herring. Sure, young people need to be educated, but this is fundamentally a behavioral, moral issue. The problem is knowing where babies come from, it's about how sexuality is regarded. In that respect, the shift in attitudes about the uses of sexuality have had a cost.
I called in and spoke about being 21 and struggling with wanting a regular social life. I will say that now, having a 12 year old daughter, I have two main thoughts on this subject. One being, she is the best friend I've ever had and I love every minute of our journey together. I also feel strongly about educating her about sex education. It's the hardest thing you ever do in your life-to be a parent. Combine that with the next hardest thing-being a teenager, and it can be a long road. I don't wish that on her and I would be very adamant about preventing it.
My sex education consisted of helping my best friend thru her pregnancy at 14 years old. Sex ed in schools is horribly lacking. thankfully, Planned Parenthood was there for me and my friend when even our parents were not.
How exactly would education have made the difference for you? I would imagine the example of your friend would have been a powerful cautionary example.
I am 37. My mom had me at 14 in 1971 in Indiana with no dad involved. She now has a PHD from Vanderbilt and is a teacher in Oregon. Hang in there girls. I turn out great. Warning, I think my mom is somewhat bitter after fighting the system for so long.
Well you need to learn how to spell - your mother could just be a 'bitter' person - - and at 14 even in Indiana - I'm sure it was statutory rape even if consensual -
I am 51 years old and I made the choice to have my baby but to adopt out. I was the first girl not to "hide" my pregnancy in H.S. Keeping my child was never an option.
My daughter is going on 34 years old now and is about to have her second child.
Even though we have been reunited for 13 years now, and our relationship is incredibly painful for me. I have to take a back seat to all the major events in her life.
What I am trying to say is that there is no good solution teen-age pregnancy. The BEST choice having birth control available and to understand your options before you ever get pregnant.
Good Morning. I heard one of the young mothers say that her getting pregnant was an "accident." HA!
Too often, we take the responsibility away from others' behaviors and call them "accidents." But as someone who has worked in prevention for almost 30 years, I want to tell you there are NO accidents.
What really happens is that people are careless. She and her boyfriend were careless 1) by not practicing abstinence; and 2) by not using birth control. It's certainly available theses days. There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancies.
Take responsiblity for your planned actions to avoid the consequences. Thanks -
I agree with you that teen pregnancy is rarely an accident. But rather than shaking our heads and our fingers at these girls and boys, let's realize the possibility that something deeper may be going on. (Please scroll up to read my comment beginning with "In 1956"). If I had a mentor or a good councilor before I became pregnant at age 17, that pregnancy may have never occurred. Certainly at this stage in my life I would not chance a thing as I have great love a respect for my four children and my grandchildren as well.
Valid point, but why does insisting on standards so often get derided as "shaking our heads and our fingers at" or some such thing. Perhaps the reluctance of so many adults to do that, at the risk of being derided as a puritan, spoilsport or reactionary, has led to a relaxation of standards.
You can set all the standards you want but if you don't know scientifically the capability of the person to meet those standards or educate the person about the standards and how to meet them your standards are just a fools errand, just a way to let you be judge-mental about other peoples problems.
Set a child up for failure and it is likely that they'll fail.
Set a child up to be a success and they'll likely succeed even if they make a few errors on the way.
Forgiveness is in order here, not condemnation.
I wish Dana and Jayme and their children well.
And Dana and Jaymes parents well too.
I try and start from the point that everyone is doing the best that they know how to do and then ask myself how I/they could change and learn a more effective way to live.
Because having a child at a young age, is not a moral issue, it is a social issue. Why is this about standards at all? What standards?
There is little to suggest having a child at a young age is an inherently bad thing. Certainly because of traditional social and cultural "standards" it is generally looked upon negatively.
Perhaps, the functional aspects of giving birth and caring for a child as a youth, do always leave a young person at a disadvantage. And, we could reason that the "responsible" thing to do, would be to wait until we are at an age, where we might be more prepared. I think we can only argue against it, and educate youth about it, on these grounds.
The standard in Missouri for consensual sex is 14 years old, that is when a child can choose to get married, and I believe that standard has been in place for many many years. So is that a good moral standard? A good legal standard? A good psychological standard? Is that too relaxed or not relaxed enough?
Just so you know, I don't think that a 14 year old has the mental competence to make an informed decision about sex at that age.
Tom D Ford,
I wasn't replying to your comment about standards (although the ordering appears that way) but to AnthonyR. By "standards" mentioned by AnthonyR, I don't think the intent was laws.
Besides.... I think fourteen is probably an okay age for consensual sex---whatever that means. Marriage---fourteen? Probably not an okay age, based on what society defines marriage as. But, I don't believe in Marriage in general so I can't say much about it.
So, you feel a fourteen year-old should not be allowed to have sex with another fourteen year-old?
And I was not replying to you, just adding another comment to Anthony. This software is clunky in the way that it orders replies. We really have to quote some part of a persons post in order to show that is who we are replying to. Cruddy software really, I wish they would get WebX, WebCrossing software, it is very user friendly.
Fourteen year olds will probably have sex, though I don't recommend it, and I wish we had effective education programs for them so that if they so choose at least they can protect themselves and their futures.
Considering the vast amount of adolescent brain research that we now have at our fingertips, to state that teens are careless about sex would be useless-they care but do not make very good connections between behavior and results, put emotional relationships above logic, and do not process information in the same way as adults. Now we know teens need much more than they are getting from communities, schools and parents to make good decisions regarding sexual activity. Knowing about the teen brain, there is an excuse for unplanned pregnancies!-there is no excuse that we are not using this information as a community and change our approach.
So many adults with fully developed brains can make poor decisions that lead to unwanted pregnancies. How many youngest children slipped into a family unplanned? Most teens do not have a capacity to FULLY understand the consequences of their actions when they choose to have sex. If we want to see a change, we need to take responsibility for how we prepare teens for decisions surrounding sex.
Yep. Right on. Very good points.
These teens need to be responsible for their behavior - the females need to keep their panties and the rest of their clothes on and the males need to do the same - - What are they thinking - - the problem is that they are all only thinking with their crotch - they should not be having sex - and if they do THEY (male & female equally) should make sure that THEY have the resources to deal with the consequences - they can pay $4.00 for a few condoms or be ready to pay the tens of thousands that it costs to raise a child.
Or the ever radical idea - DO NOT HAVE SEX until you can afford the consequences !!!!!!
So stop complaining about missing your teenage years etc etc school your social life etc etc - if you were that interested in school you would not have either gotten her knock up or gotten knocked up - you would have been too busy LEARNING (now there is another radical idea - read a book - perhaps about why teens should not have sex)
And of course, I'm being crippled by taxes so I have to pay for those who can't keep their clothes on - - - are they going to pay me back for the consequences of their actions.
I don't think so - so just keep your clothes on, go to school, LEARN about sexuality - and the rest of the world - God forbid you might find that there is much in the world apart from you crotch and genitals.
Once again, I need to clarify that I am Jaymes mother. . . so my post isn't very objective.
However I work with teen mothers, I run a shelter for parenting and pregnant teens, so I feel I can answer with a fair amount of experience.
Almost all of the teens who become pregnant are victims of trauma. Statistically they are more likely to be victims of sexual abuse, they almost always have been either homeless, in foster care or living with relatives. They have layers of issues with addictions, abandonment, poverty and more. These girls have usually been taught from an early age that thier body is for others use, and the concept of birth control and/or just saying no to sex is something that is never taught to them.
The middle class teenage girl who goes too far with her boyfriend, gets pregnant and has a baby is not the normal teen pregnancy.
Second point: I didn't hear either girl complaining about missing teenage years. They were asked and both answered that sometimes they miss it, but that being a parent is a reward in and of itself.
As for Jayme, it may interest you to know a few facts. . . . She is an award winning flutist, who has performed in weddings, at the grand opening of a library, in San Diego and Seattle. She was a very strong student who graduated right on time. She reads avidly, is enrolled in college (With her boyfriend/babys father) and plans on getting her MBA.
Also. . . she worked until she was 6 months pregnant and put on bed rest. She works now, the babys father has always worked 2-3 jobs to take care of Gabriel.
She has private insurance, so no, your taxes aren't paying for anything.
I understand that isn't the norm but I also know that its so quick and easy to judge somebody then it is to actually jump in and be part of the solution. Go work with teen parents, volunteer to be a mentor to a young father, drive kids in foster care to appointments, learn about who these kids truly are. Your eyes may be opened
Thanks for your writing here. I learned something.
I have to agree with Tom on this one (please, no heart attacks out there): thanks for participating honestly and articulately, Ma'am.
Thank you for claryfying that Jaymesmom. I was at the radio show with your daughter yesterday, and I didn't get a chance to chat with her very much after because I had to take Dana to pick up her daughter and get them to school, but will you let her know I think she did a really great job? Her friend siad that she was nervous that she might sound snooty or that she might sound like she thinks she is better than other teen parents. As I talked with Dana in the car, we both thought that she did a real good job of giving her friends and family alot of credit for her success. Tell her to take some of the credit too though! She is an amazing girl, you must be very proud of her. Please email me if you or Jamye are ever in Portland we would love for you to come to our program and talk to some of the teens.
"And of course, I'm being crippled by taxes so I have to pay for those who can't keep their clothes on - - - are they going to pay me back for the consequences of their actions."
Actually that is a lie started by The Great Prevaricator, President Ronald "Amiable Dunce" Reagan when he complained about "Cadillac driving welfare queens".
Your crippling taxes actually are paying for the Military Industrial Complex that the great President Dwight Eisenhower warned us against.
We pay a very piddlin' small amount of taxes to Compassionately help our children who make mistakes, to do what Jesus taught "even as you treat the least of these ...".
I am proud to pay those socially responsible taxes.
Do I know you? I'm agreeing with you throughout this post... something is wrong... 8O
This show really touched me. I am so awed by Jayme and Dana and their commitments to being the best mamas they can be to their children. Motherhood at any age is challenging. The comments about missing out on life because of a baby resonated with me. As a mom of 3 at 28, i often struggle with the notion that i am "missing out" or lacking what my non-mom peers are doing. But then i step back and remember the beauty and the love and the richness that my crazy hectic life as a mama brings me and know that i am contributing to the world in a way that going out on the town can never match. So keep going mamas teen and otherwise! This is only one stage of your lives.
Teens male or female certainly should keep on going, going to school - learning more about themslves, people, cultures, the world and life.
And as a 'Mom' of three - don't you think it might be time to call it quits - or perhaps be like my grandmother who had thirteen children and did the world no favors.
Perhaps you and/or your sexual partner/s should consider getting yourselves fixed and not keep contibuting any more love, richness to your crazy hectic life. And what exactly are you contributing to the world?
Having more children?
Or something more significant - almost any healthy male and female can reproduce so I wonder what special gift you are giving to the world?
Three more consumers of the planets resources ?
I have thought about this post of yours all day.
While I'm still considering flagging it for Dave to consider as over the top, I wanted to first see if you would take a request to tone down the personal sounding attacks in the manner I ask it. Your opinion seems quite clear from quite a few posts within the thread (in both the direct comments and the sarcastic ones); I'm afraid I miss the value for this community of attacking someone who is freely expressing herself.
Let me be clear, I believe disagreeing with a position is different from attacking someone. For example, Tom Ford and I disagree wildly about the value of faith in God (or His existence if I understand Tom's position correctly), but to my knowledge, neither of us has posted anything here that reaches this kind of personal attack on a person who is simply sharing her opinion and experience.
Please reconsider the presentation of your post.
Sounds like the gift might be misunderstood, not the children but perhaps the love shown to them? Even if it is referring to the kids---perhaps one of them might be a little genius. Maybe, they are a gift to the world.
However, this is not a personal attack. It is an attack on the persons actions.
It seems equally offensive to suggest that a poster should "reconsider the presentation" of their post. If people are angry, crazy, lopsided or plain normal, they should have a right to sound that way---anything else is dishonest.
We all have the freedom to disarm words we feel are hateful.
I can appreciate your position and am willing to try to be open to clarification up to a point.
What bugs me is the "don't you think it might be time to call it quits" and "Perhaps you and/or your sexual partner/s should consider getting yourselves fixed" type remarks. Even in our occasional rather heated interactions, I don't recall this kind of personal challenge... do you?
Do you see what I am objecting to, or feel I'm really out of line to approach someone that I think may have made an emotional post that could be considered hostile enough to the person to imply she isn't welcome here?
"For example, Tom Ford and I disagree wildly about the value of faith in God (or His existence if I understand Tom's position correctly),"
I think you have that disagreement right. The way I see it Jesus was a great teacher and you and I agree for the most part about what he taught. But I think he was just a charismatic human and you think he was/is a God.
I think that all religions have/had some great teachers, Rabbi Hillel, Mohammed(SP?) Dalai Lama, Buddha, the Greek and Roman "gods" but they were/are all humans talking about human stuff.
I suggest Joseph Campbells' The Power of Myth videos as he studied the religions all over the world and through history if you're interested in your own religion and in how other religions are similar. Years ago they were given to public libraries on grants.
Karen Armstrong, Elaine Pagels, and others too.
I've agreed with you most of the time here and I expect that to continue.
And I write here just to get my thoughts ordered, after all your mind has to resolve things in order to be able to write them down. I don't write to convince you or anyone else that I'm right. I've learned over the years that ideas and beliefs that I once held sacred (literally) have changed and so I expect to change more in the future.
At around 13 I wanted to grow up and be a preacher to help people. That oughta shock you, heh?
I think this was a good show. I also think we miss half the equation in going after the mom?s here.
Did the girls initiate the sex? I would suggest that in the emotional and hormonal cauldron of adolescence they were responding ?appropriately? to the guy?s desires. I would love to have had a chance for Emily or Dave to grill the fathers about just what they were thinking.
I also think it?s kind of revealing that a recent PBS edition of ?What?s the new what?? indicated that unprotected sex is now ?the new engagement ring? because it shows "commitment" to the relationship. After all, they said, you can take a ring back.
"I would love to have had a chance for Emily or Dave to grill the fathers about just what they were thinking."
Henh, from grilled "Brats" to grilled fathers, yow!
That was a very informative show for me.
I have a close relative who recently became a young mother. Hearing from Jayme and Dana gave me insight from their perspective. That you both for being so brave to come on the air.
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