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Nestle Waters has expressed interest in building a spring water bottling plant in the Oregon town of Cascade Locks. Nestle Waters is a division of Nestle that bottles ten brands of water in North America including Poland Spring, Perrier, and Arrowhead. Cascade Locks is a town of roughly 1,075 people that has been losing jobs for decades and closed its high school earlier this month. The $50 million Nestle facility would bring with it an estimated 45 new jobs and would almost double the town’s property tax revenue.
Opponents of this proposal say that the Nestle jobs won’t go to current Cascade Locks residents, and that Nestle’s presence will drive away tourists who would otherwise come to visit the beautiful scenery. The facility would also bring a continuous stream of truck traffic to the town, and some residents worry about negative consequences for the environment.
Nestle Waters has faced similar opposition before from communities around the country, fighting legal battles in several states. Nestle last year canceled a contract to build a water bottling plant in the town of McCloud, California, after years of vocal opposition from many in that community.
Where does the water you drink come from? Do you live in Cascade Locks, or near a bottled water facility that's already up and running? How can a small town balance tourism, economic and environmental concerns? How would a Nestle bottling plant in Cascade Locks affect you?
GUESTS:
- Katelin Stuart: Cascade Locks resident
- Brad Lorang: Mayor of Cascade Locks
- Debra Anderson: President of the McCloud Watershed Council
- Dave Palais: Natural resource manager for Nestle Waters
- Mark Schlosberg: Western regional director for Food & Water Watch
Tagged as: cascade locks · nestle · water
Photo credit: Trinitas Imaging/Udit Kuishrestha/ Flick /Creative Commons
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please, please read this article: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/117/features-message-in-a-bottle.html
don't drink bottled water. don't let bottlers take our water.
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This comment has been removed by the TOL staff.
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please, please read this article: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/117/features-message-in-a-bottle.html
don't drink bottled water. don't let bottlers take our water.
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Didn't we all have the discussion that 20 minutes of water in a plastic bottle that releases toxins into your body as you drink it and takes 10,000 years to decompose is a bad idea?
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I can't believe this is even up for debate. The privitization of water is probably the largest nail we can put into our collective coffin. The very idea of bottled water is ludricous, and if you belive it is cleaner, safer, or tastier you have fallen victim to a very evil marketing scheme.
Might I suggest everyone in the world watch the documentary Flow:For the Love of Water by fimmaker Irena Salina. Not only will you learn about the the scam that is bottled water, you can see first hand what Nestle Corporation has done to the lovely residents of Mecosta County in Michingan, who are STILL battling Nestle to stop pumping thier water at 280 gallons per minute--just so they can sell it back to residents of Michigan and beyond.
In tough times I understand the allure of 45 jobs---but think about how long they will last, and if they are even going to go to residents of Cascade Locks--my guess is not many will, and certanly not enough for Oregon to support Nestle Corporation and the stealing of natural resources for corporate gain.
Please say no to this, let your voice be heard!
And please watch the film--84minutes can change your life!
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I think this is a bad idea given the little I know about this company. At the very most I think the city should allow the company the non-extendable use of the water for thirty years and then the use of the water and the property of the plant would return to the city and directly benefit the people who live here and are directly impacted by whatever consequences come of this.
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What are the real benefits of this proposal?
45 jobs? In exchange for what?
Increased traffic (both locally and regionally), increased pollution, increased fuel consumption, I could go on. All this so people can spend more to purchase a gallon of water than they pay for a gallon of gas. We spend billions of dollars across this country to provide safe, clean drinking water, yet we spend even more to buy water that comes from somewhere else and brings with it massive environmental consequences.
I would not want this in my community, even if it meant jobs. I'd prefer a casino to a bottled water facility any day of the week.
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Are the few jobs and revenue that is created by this company worth the impact they will make? Seems a bit shortsighted because we are in a desperate economic situation.
Bottled water itself is a scam and I can't believe people still buy into it as much as they do. It's easy enough to buy a filter or pitcher with one. At least you know where the water really came from...
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So the objections to this bottling facility are largely because people think bottled water is bad for the environment and for personal health. If the construction or existence of the plant was bad for the environment that would be reasonable grounds to question its construction. But there are no reasonable grounds to question what goes on inside or what the product is. I don't drink bottled water personally, but really there are no solid arguments against its existence. It is funny how flimsy the arguments are and how widely perpetuated they have been, it makes many environmentalists look like fools.
Say I only drink orange juice in plastic bottles. Few seem to have a problem with this. Then after years of orange juice I switch to drinking only bottled water, is the offense more of an offense? Just because I could potentially get the water where I live from a tap? It might be better for the environment if nothing was bottled at all, but to choose one product over another, simply because you could find an alternative (that isn't bottled) is silly at best. -
One thought...you don't NEED orange juice to live. You do NEED water, and if we decde to privatize water, that means the regulations of tap water will, excuse me, but go down the drain. Not to mention the ridiculous rate at which water is being extracted damages our "natural" supply. We continue to support the bottling of water one day we will be REQUIRED to buy bottled water. And then what? Are we all going to be able to affor d to do that?
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I oppose plastic containers across the board. I think all of us do that are writing about this particular bottling plant. We'd all love to see alternative packaging for any product. In this case, we can already get this product from a tap... you can't get orange juice from a tap.
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If people only required water to live, only drank water, and could not survive without drinking water (it its unadulterated form) then you/we would have a strong argument. But, this is not the case, you could drink bottled ice-tea your entire life and survive, or squeeze oranges directly from a tree. Just because water is a base substance doesn't make it different from the derivatives and doesn't mean it should be treated differently. As I said I don't drink bottled water, because I don't particularly see the need. But should I decide to, there would be nothing wrong with that decision on moral, ethical or any other philosophical grounds.
You can't object to bottled water because you think it is unnecessary, unless you object to every other product in life that is unnecessary. You can't object to bottled water because it has been made into a luxury unless you object to everything else that is made into a luxury. Modern life is largely a luxury. Writing on this blog is a luxury. Having a computer is a luxury. Having a radio and listening to this show is a luxury. Lets ban all this too. We decide on a personal level what we think is unnecessary, but we have no right to dictate to other people what their necessities will be, particularly, when we all have bloody hands. We have no right to object to this plant on these grounds. -
Wow. You have completely missed the point.
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denisep,
Please tell me what the point is then (or your point). Perhaps, your other reply didn't accomplish that. Unless your point is that companies are going to own, or own the access, to all the drinking-water in the world. Got it. Which seems like an impossibility and quite frankly, hysterical and alarmist. We would be better served by forcing everyone to be vegetarians, because so much of our water goes into producing meat.
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It is distressing to me that we even use bottled water. We have loaded our landfills with plastic bottles, and there is no need for this. Our water is safe to drink from the tap, and we can fill our own reusable bottles. Cascade Locks needs work, but is this the best they can do?
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Portland needs work, too, is moving their garbage through the Gorge to Arlington and driving their cars out to the Gorge to recreate the best they can do?
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How much revenue does the town expect yearly from this? What will the additional costs for road repair be? How long will the spring water hold out?
The bottom line is Nestle is selling a product no one needs. They're selling us a resource that belongs to all of us.
Hopefully the woman who is going to talk from California will shed some light on the McCloud experience.
Here's an article on the fight they've been waging.http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_15/b4079042498703.htm
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Sounds like a difficult challenge. Residents deserve a means to uplift their local economy, certainly. It's just that we have to move AWAY from considering water a product to bottle in plastic containers. Already the plastics industry is causing havoc in the environment. It just makes me sad to think of such a beautiful part of Oregon sacrificing one of thier most importand resources to the community - clean water.
Neslie buying clean local water resources basically sounds evil and I hate to think of a community having to sell out to a corporation polluting the environment with plastic.
Just sounds wrong and I hope that the community of Cascade Locks can find abundant and healthy sources of providing for the local economy. There have to be better choices than an industrial mistake or a casino.
I would like to know when regulators will stop beverage bottling in plastics anyway. How much plastic in the ocean, how many cases of breast cancer . . .
This just seems like a bad idea for Oregon.
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Many of these arguments are like saying: I'm an atheist (which I am) and you can't build a church. Or I'm a Christian and you can't build a strip club. Simply because you don't agree with what goes on inside. Hogwash!
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To me, it's not the same. This is an issue that impacts atheists, Christians, Muslims, plastic lovers (even if they won't admit it), and non-plastic lovers. You can't escape a plastic bottle in a landfill and the toxins leaching into our groundwater no matter your belief system, likes or dislikes.
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But I think if you are going to tout that argument, it needs to be extended to glass containers as well. Doesn't bottling beer and wine in glass require huge amounts of natural resources and energy as well?
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I don't think this is accurate either, most manufacturing facilities impact us all, most buildings in general impact us all. The computer you have written this on, impacts us all. Our objection to bottled water is largely because we feel there is a substitute and we think it is unnecessary. We shouldn't get to decide the tenant of the building or a piece of land, because we object, not to the building's impact itself, but on the perceived impact of product it is producing.
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Good point, I agree.
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It has little to do with the "plastic bottle" and more to do with multi-billion dollar companies taking natural resources that should be available to all, and turning an ENORMOUS profit off them.
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denisep,
yep, socialism. let's do away with private property rights.
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I am entirely in favor of Cascade Locks attempts to pursue economic development and improvements to its community. However, with all recent attention to improvements to the air quality of the Columbia Gorge, and to reducing pollutants from key sources, what about the consequences of the huge additional amounts of pollution from inefficient, particulate producing diesel trucks entering and exiting Cascade Locks and presumably heading to points both East and West on I-84 throughout the Gorge?
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Since when is it such a hardship to drink tap water? I know it has a nasty flavor in California, but there's filters and stuff for people who live outside of Oregon.
Bottles of water are nice, but they seem to be over used and some kind of silly status marker, though it says to me "I was to dumb to buy a plastic bottle, remember to fill it and bring it with me".
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I would like to see a city and city staff spending time soliciting and creating responsible businesses rather than responding to a solicitation from an international company with a terrible track record for both employees and the environment. Nestle is not the answer to small town Oregon. We have not tried hard enough to go to this last resort, and why should Nestle be a last resort? Are we that desperate to start selling our water? Our state and people in it have enough creativity, talent and skills to come up with other solutions. It takes working together and talking about it at length. Support local businesses! Think outside the water bottle Cascade Locks!
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Yes, you too can locate here with a business! According to some, we have 20 instead of 12 but hey, we're still under 50! Think outside, move to Cascade Locks. There are houses here for sale, too! Buy in, now!
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I live in Cascade Locks. I think the comment about thinking about the water is hypocritical in thinking in terms of the future unless you are going to apply the logic to all the wineries and breweries in Oregon as well.
What about Hood River? I don't see the people from Portland picking on them for having Full Sail?
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Beer is a value add product. Bottled water is not (at least not in a region where we have wonderful tap water). All houses in the US already have potable water "on draft" for fractions of a cent per glass.
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Full Sail uses municipal water, and it's not Oregon's water like Ox-Bow Springs
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Last time I checked, Hood River is in Oregon so therefore it is "Oregon's Water". It may belong to the City instead of the State, if that is what you meant.
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Ox-Bow Springs water rights belong to ODFW, not to C-Locks. That is the same specious logic that says we're not in the Scenic Area. We are smack in the middle of it.
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The town's Urban Growth Area is not. There are 13 excluded areas in the Scenic Act.
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Yes, it is not a part of it, but exists within it
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But is not regulated by it. An important distinction
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Nestle is the same company that promoted the use of baby formula over breast feeding in economically disadvantaged countries in the late 1970s, causing untold health problems for infants. The worldwide boycott forced Nestle to change their practices but if Nestle was willing to jeopardize the health of babies , I would not trust them in my community. Thirty years later, I still keep a list of Nestle products and will not buy anything owned by Nestle. Nestle is not to be trusted.
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I don't want to keep people from getting jobs but I have seen a documentary about water rights where Nestle did the same thing to a small town in Wisconsin or Michigan. In just a year or so, Nestle's endless sucking of the water left the residents without water for their own use. The Nestle plant had the security of an army base. Then they up and left, with the town poorer than it was before. Why can't some company in Oregon sell the water? Why can't it be bottled in some "green" bottle that decomposes in the landfills? And as the water gets more expensive and people can't afford to use plastic bottled water, where is Nestle going to be and what happens to Cascade Locks?
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What happens to Cascade Locks? Come and take a look around, we are dying......
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We are not dying, quit poor-mouthing town.
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Okay, we're not dying but our high school was closed recently due to lack of enough students, people can't pay their electric bills in the winter due toa limited base of ratepayers, there are empty lots awaiting development all over town still sitting after many years and whether it's 12 or 20 - our business base is not exactly substantial.
I don't think we're meant to be a town for retirees or vacationing sailors only and have a population whose few options for jobs include servicing them
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The High school closed because we don't have enough students, what are you going to do? Say people can't move here unless they are breeders? And bring a business with you while you are at it? Mr. Choi did and his children were so badly treated at the school, they went back to Vancouver, so you better be white while you're at it?
Our electric bills are so high because Bernard Seeger thinks the electric fund is a bank account to help support his bloated bureaucracy.
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Electric bills are high because there is a limited base of payers. If the base were increased, i.e. with some major industrial development, then rates could stay fixed or go down.
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Tourism? It is the one thing that keeps a town of "retirees" and vacationing sailors possible.
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Yep, I agree with that Katelin. But what is being done with Tourism isn't enough. Just inviting people out to hike (some more) and be here during sailing season doesn't take care of building businesses, even incubator ones or the off-season during fall/winter when sailors go away.
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I don't see how any small town should trust a corporation like Nestle. Search how they have done business in asia with baby formula and water tables in India. Water is such a valuable commodity and becoming more so, to basically give it away for a small tax base seems a crazy business move, my objection though is social and environmental. They didn't voluntarily pull their cookie dough until the FDA pulled it. Their business model is so '90's..
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inefficient, particulate producing diesel trucks entering and exiting Cascade Locks and presumably heading to points both East and West on I-84 throughout the Gorge?
WHY AREN"T YOU FIGHTING THE RAILROAD, this traffic idea of cutting down freight won't have much impact versus the 52 RR trips EVERY DAY THrough the Gorge - and that is just on the Oregon side!
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The railroad was here before Cascade Locks and is grandfathered in and doesn't go by every 7 minutes,
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Really? Do you live in the same town I do? That's right, sometimes the trains don't go on through, they sit with engines idling on the tracks all night long when the yards from Portland push freight out on the tracks.
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Kept me awake last night, too. I wish they could ship the water on the rails, but I heard they won't because water is a temperature sensitive product.
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I wish we could charge the RR a pass-through fee. Now, that would generate some revenue.
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Nestle is being sued all around the country for DEPLETING WATER TABLES but above and beyond that, the bottled water industry is about making money, selling a resource that is no better than what comes out of most of our taps.
Oregon has SERIOUS water issues, a potential shortage that most Oregonians are just beginning to become concerned about. Rainfall has nothing to do with available ground water. All around the state, people are becoming aware of falling water tables. Bottling our water to ship it away from the area is beyond shortsighted.
Nestle will profit hugely, and by the time the detrimental affects to the local water table become obvious, and the lawsuits begin, Nestle will be gone. They destroyed the water table in rural Michigan, where citizens have been fighting for years to close the plant.
There are huge environmental issues around bottling water.
1. It takes 3 bottles of water to make one disposable plastic bottle--
2. 1.5 MILLION BARRELS OF OIL---enough water to run 100,000 cars a year---are used to make plastic water bottles. Transporting the bottles requires even MORE oil
3. 85% of plastic water bottles land up in landfills.
Americans have access to good water. The bottled water industry spends millions of dollars a year scaring people about the water that comes out of our taps. The only benefit derived from selling water will be reaped by Nestle.
Even in Italy, where bottled water has been the norm for decades, officials have begun a campaign to eliminate the use of bottled water because the environmental concerns are now becoming obvious.
Water in America is safe to drink. The creation of 40 jobs will pale in comparison to the environmental catastrophe that will ultimately result from bottling water in Cascade Locks.
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Does this not apply to cola? Does this not apply to any other bottled beverage? Because essentially they are all unnecessary. Bottled water is simply an easy target, because it seems so fundamental.
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I think it is good to remember too that there are people who say that in the coming decades or centuries that water is going to be valued in a similarly to the way we value oil now, and there was a time that communities were happy to have other people come in and take care of the oil project.
I costs nothing to leave the water alone and let it do its work in the ecosystem, work that we may not completely understand.
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That is where the 80 inches of rain comes in, no, Nestle doesn't want rain, they want spring water but where do you think the spring water comes from?
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Aquifer supplied by snowmelt mostly.
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I think some of the rainfall probably percolates down as well. of course we could bottle the runoff and call it muddy stormwater, wanna drink some?
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Please suggest that people see the movie "Flow", How a handful of corporations steal our water!
We are so fortunate in Oregon to have clean abundant water. It is our wealth and it belongs in it's own watershed. Please do not sign our wealth away to any corporation, especially one with such a horrible human rights record. Bottling water is also not a sustainable or healthy business. There are carcinogens in those plastic bottles! This city needs support to find clean sustainable local businesses to help it grow, not a huge corporation that will steal it's water. The mayor needs to read up on the dangers of water privatization!
(remember the baby formula scandal? and more recently the poisoned toll house cookies?) .
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You are welcome to locate here as is anyone who keeps saying we need business. SO MOVE HERE AND BRING A BUSINESS!!!!
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Nestle project and other business interests can be done properly and advantageous to Cascade Locks and OR. There are plenty of existing rules in place, as well as mitigated conditions. (such as using bio-degradable plastics for bottles, and fueling transportation and manufacturing with e-friendly resources)
The need for Economic Development is critical in rural OR, and should be done properly and without the urbanites 'butting in' with their own agenda. Protections exist (especially in 'the Gorge') so let the process work. It is highly improbable the Casino is going to come anytime soon, nor will it be beneficial to the sustainable economic benefit of CL. As mentioned, the required I-84 interchange will divert traffic from the town center of CL, that is not good for business...
Emily ! 'Please don't Californicate Oregon.. ' Interstate highways are not designated "THE I-84" ick.
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aya - I did live in LA for two years! The 84, right?
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Years ago Nestle gave out samples of baby formula, which I think was Enfamil, to mothers with newborn babies in Mexico. The mothers fed the Enfamil and consequently their breast milk dried up. When the samples ran out the mothers were too poor to buy more and without natural breast milk their babies died.
I suggest you search out the history of the Nestle Corporation and ask yourself if you want a corporation with such a bad record in your town. I sure don't want them in Oregon and I take great care to make sure I don't buy their products.
Nestles is one of the least admirable corporations in the world.
Just say no to Nestles! Loudly and often!
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I was rinsing out the plastic baggies that I have from getting dried cranberries at the grocery store when I heard the topic of today's show. Did you know that you can find Nestle baby formula on the sparsley stocked stands of street vendors on the main streets of West African villages. Since when did babies not need the known benefits of a mother's breast milk? Over there it's a status symbol to use powdered baby formula. See the parallel? Good marketing sells everyone, even those in great need, a bill of goods that isn't really to their benefit.
But that aside, I rinse those baggies because I think there's far too much plastic in the world. With a 4-year-old, I think about how this earth must be in decent shape to host her for the next hopefully 95 years or so. And that doesn't even consider the notion of her having her own family and so on and so on. Plastic bottles of water just don't figure into the equation of sustainability. Why on earth would anyone consider expanding this industry anywhere? Even in economic hard times.
Get creative. Insist that Nestle get creative with eliminating plastic. And yes, determine the real impact any such plant would have on the local community beyond the immediate gain of tax revenue. Only if the pieces add up to a long-term, sustainable solution on all conceivable fronts should a town consider moving ahead with such a plant.
Thanks for listening.
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I would like to point out that Cascade Locks can't RAISE its rate that it charges for water because of an inititative petition led by Sandra Kelley to keep the city from raising ANY rates including water without holding an election, which we can't afford because we're on a limited budget.
Beginning to get the vicious cycle picture here?
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Wow, are we still mad about THAT divisive issue? Quit playing the personality game, Andy. It was voted in. We certainly can choose to sell the spring water for a higher price. It won't be a part of our municipal water system.
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I'm not mad Jannissary just pointing out the facts so everyone is well-informed. People kept asking during the show why we won't charge Nestle more, well it's more complicated than the answer the mayor gave.
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The mayor is incapable of giving a complicated answer, Andy.
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U so funny ! I agree. The guy needs speech lessons or something, too.
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For your reference - a 2L bottle of non-carbonated water can be purchased in regular supermarkets (not whole sale) in Germany for 19 euro cents! This includes a per-bottle cost for recycling and of course, profit for the retailer.
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I turned on OPB this morning to hear Emily Harris kick off her show with, "So what kind of water did Michael Jackson drink?"
I am not a Michael Jackson fan, but the man has just died. Controversial as he was, he was a human being. Referring to him in jest, albeit lightly, on a show whose topic is completely unrelated to him or the news of his passing, was in poor taste. OPB is too smart for stuff like this.
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ditto - it was in poor taste and offensive!
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ditto:
The hosts of ToL have some serious 'growing-up' to do. Pretty pathetic. It is really evident when they have serious topics such as suicide and death, and you 'hurt' for commentors (callers) who are evident in their need; yet they a 'brushed-off' with a smart quip... sad
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Incredibly crass and tasteless comment by the host. She should lay off her attempts at humor and focus more on a professional production.
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I am so sorry all of you took offense at that. I actually loved some of Michael Jackson's work and wanted to somehow acknowledge he was on a lot of people's minds this morning, including mine. Thanks for sharing how it sounded to you.
Emily Harris
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I liked the comment, I thought it was funny and charming. It seems narcissistic and pompous, to suggest that people who have no real relationship with a celebrity, should dictate and hold the rights on what is an acceptable response to their death, and how others ought to react to it. Michael Jackson was a human-being, but our superficial knowledge of him is not on the human level, he was a commodity, an idea. No one holds the license on that idea.
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What is the Spring's flow rate (GPM or GPD) for both Cascade Locks and Mcloud?
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In regards to the Comment on Full Sail Brewery vs. Nestle:
Full Sail is a Privately Owned company that manufactures a unique product that adds identity to Hood River denizens and the rest of Oregon. When someone cracks open a bottle of Nestle bottled water are they going to even wonder where it came from? Further, profits made from the brewery are spent by the local owners, in Hood River, and thus pumping money into the town and the rest of the PNW.
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Believe me, having a water bottling plant here, Nestle or someone else, would definitely pump money into our town. And who's to say that Cascade Locks can't ask for a label of its own?
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We have one. It's going to be called Bernard dehydrated water.
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Yes, we know, as posted on your blog. The graphic was hysterical btw, I did think so even though some thought it in poor taste. But that aside, I think the guy is trying. You have to give him points for effort, he has been working on economic development while the Port has ???? done what exactly? Rented the Sternwheeler out, of course, that was two years ago now and still pursuing the Casino. Other than that they have done a very nice remodel of some buildings at Marine Park but that doesn't equate to attracting business here.
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No one has yet commented on the fact the Nestle is considered one of the top 10 WORST corporations in the world in terms of environmental protection, human rights, social justice and community sensitivity, as ranked by a variety of organizations that analyze and rank such businesses. I find myself listening is disbelief as Cascade Locks considers cutting a deal that is a losing proposition for our region, for our people, for our fish, for our environment, and one that resembles what Third World Countries do with large multi-national corporations to sell out their resources.
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So is Nike. I don't see you guys still booing Phil Knight for using child labor to manufacture shoes. OH! I forgot, that was LAST year's e-fad to protest about.
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So why are you so mad, Andy and who appointed you the local attack dog?
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Jannisary - we're going to seriously have a talk. My posting here is my opinion and engaging in the debate. no one appointed me to be an attack dog and I'm not angry, just an involved citizen. I think I'm privy to that right?
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Nike is nowhere near the league of Nestle (and is irrelevant to this topic). Year after year, Nestle receives recognition as the most irresponsible corporation, and joins the likes of GM, ADM, Pfizer, Wal Mart, GE, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco, Tyson Foods, and Kraft as the worst 10 corporations on the planet, based on overall social and environmental records.
There is a great website out there for more information: www.betterworldshopper.com. For hard copy, get a hold of the book The Better World Shopping Guide by Ellis Jones.
Cascade Locks' residents might want to consider the fact that Nestle is involved in a child slavery lawsuit, aggresively takes over family farms, is involved in union busting, depleting water tables, not to mention the shameful history of forcing unneeded and harmful baby formula on the poor. This is not an ethical, trustworthy or admirable company.
It appears that Nestle is a predator corporation, and has deemed Cascade Locks vulnerable in its need for revenue.
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Of course you are, but I draw the line at mocking out-of-towners about e-fads
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I don't and I'll leave the mocking of the city manager to you, Jannisary
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TRUCK TRAFFIC??? ON I-84? CMON!
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Yeah, and what about the Metro contract hauling garbage from Portland to Arlington? I think that blows some CO2 into the Gorge as well.
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Most plastic water bottles don't get recycled, someone quoted the percentage thrown away at 86%.
What happens to all those empty water bottles? Here's one answer: they end up in the oceans and kill untold numbers of fish, birds and animals.
Read the story of plastiki, the ship made from empty plastic bottles, and its voyage into an ocean wasteland of floating plastic.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2009383928_apusbottleship.html?syndication=rss
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I believe people should look into the corporate (ir)responsibility history of any company with whom they wish to deal. NESTLE has a history of encouraging African women in less developed countries to feed their children Nestle infant formula and discouraging breast feeding through ad campaigns. Unfortunately, in this situation, the women unknowingly used local water which was scarce and contaminated, to mix the formula, resulting in the deaths of many children due to diahhrea resulting from ingestion of the contaminated water in their formula. Feeding their children breast milk could have prevented these unnecessary deaths. Is this an ethical company? Can Cascade Locks trust them to do the right thing? Probably not. Thank about it.
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It requires more water to produce a plastic water bottle than the amount of water you drink out of a water bottle purchased from the store. Surely humanity can find better ways to store water. I can't say that I've never purchased bottled water in a pinch, but I have plenty of empty, clean containers in my house that I can fill up before a roadtrip with tap water which is essentially free. Likewise, re-used containers or barrels can be used to store water for an emergency.
Many industries such as Full Sail require use of water from our watershed. What is scary about Nestle is the scale: far more water is consumed than a micro brew and no doubt, Nestle will take the product globally.
As quoted in the piece, 86% of plastic containers are not recycled. In the U.S., consumers either don't care enough or are confused about what is and what isn't recyclable. Often, if a recycling receptacle is not available, the bottle ends up in the trash. In Latin America, where recyling programs don't exist and where too often people don't understand the toxic nature of plastics, I've seen plastic bottles piled in landfills, or even in front yards, where they are burned.
While better and more polished PR might help Nestle push this one through, we need to think hard about what this will do to our watershed, to consumers, to demand on oil, to the hurting Salmon, and a host of other issues. If we don't start dealing with these issues soon, our grandchildren will live on a nearly dead planet.
If our habits of convenience don't serve any of us well, except perhaps Nestle stockholders, then maybe we should change them.
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I am against Nestle coming into the NW. It is the most boycotted company in the world. Their bottom line is profit only, and they have no concern about Cascade Locks, nor any other place. Their record through out the world is atrocious, and their bottled water difficulties here in North America are quite real, from Michigan, to Ontario, to California. I hope we are wise enough to avoid this harmful and unethical company. We must do, and can do much better. Cascade Locks deserves better, and can wait it out, for a future investment that blends with its and our life style and values.
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I am against Portlanders coming into the Gorge. They fall off cliffs, we have to have our SAR go and get them. They bring their own food and water in bottles so they don't come into town to eat, and they have no concern about Cascade Locks. Their record throughout the Gorge is atrocious and the difficulties involving their attitude about Oregon being under Portland control are quite real. I hope we are wise enough to start putting up blockades or at least charging a toll against these unethical people. We must do and can do much better. Cascade Locks deserves better and can wait it out for better people to come in and tell us how to live.
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The world would be a better place if everybody could drink water from Cascade Locks. The demand for bottled water is enormous and so long as people want it, they might as well get the best water on Earth.
Take your crusade against bottled water to the consumers. I can't believe you make a huge deal about bottling water when just up the river in White Salmon they're building robotic war machines.
Just for the record, I think those UAV's are awesome! But if you're looking for the least-impact product known to man, bottled water comes close. Beer contributes to disease and traffic fatalities, hatchery fish compete with their wild cousins, robotic aircraft help pinpoint fiery attacks from the sky... and bottled water? Keeps my kid from getting dehydrated at the soccer match. Sheesh!!
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Uh - and by the way, the UAVs are moving closer to Portland as Insitu (Boeing) is expanding into Stevenson, Washington. So that will increase truck traffic on I-84, too. Because trucks, particularly freight, cross the bridge and go up the Oregon side. The drivers don't, generally, go up the Washington side.
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Oregonians are deparate for work. We have a water resource that we can use to sustain employment for people in our community. There are some of those who are opposed who have a self-righteous and elitist attitude to those in our community who are without employment. We have over 12% unemployment in this state? What is the impact of poverty in this state on the environment and on people's lives? Does keeping people in poverty promote a sustainability?
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What is the impact 45 jobs would have on the 12% unemployment rate? Enough to condone raping the land of a precious natural resource?
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Yeah, and what is the impact of cooling those huge towers that Google has set up in The Dalles to generate search engines for the Internet. Quit raping that resource already, too!
Seriously, you can make your point without resorting to the standard enviro-theatrics. Although, it does make for free entertainment.
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As a farmer, one truth is perennially pounded into you: Never give up your water rights. No one can predict the future where water is concerned, except for the fact that we need it to survive. Imagine a world where you had to depend on a profit-making corporation, based somewhere far away, for your water delivery? How expensive would that be, and how quickly and how well would they repair and maintain the delivery system? It would completely dictate the kind of development that was done in the future, too.
Another point not considered in what I’ve heard/read so far is the air quality of the Gorge, which has come under scrutiny recently by the DEQ. Yes, with I-84 running through it we will never get away from traffic-sourced pollution, but does it make sense to encourage more at this point, such as the 100+ trucks daily that Nestle would be using? The National Scenic Area is the only one in our country, and people come from around the world who enjoy our fresh, tree-scoured air (not to mention those of us who live here).
Lastly, with regard to wine at least, no water is used directly in making it—it’s all juice. Water is used for irrigation and cleaning of equipment and facilities, but that water is bought and paid for through the public utility system (and the same for beer, juice, or any other kind of business that I know of in the Gorge), thus supporting future water for all. I, for one, would like to always have a voice in my water source and the way it is delivered. -
Uh, and Nestle would also be paying us for water through our public utility system, so your point is what exactly>
Wine still uses water, what about the glass bottles used to bottle it in? Doesn't creating glass take resources including water?
Maybe it's using less of a resource, in your opinion, but it (making wine) IS still using resources!
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Re today's program, below find links describing Nestle's behavior in other communities, and links posed by the issues raised on many levels by the bottling and commodification of water.
None of this is meant to imply that Cascade Locks and many other communities across the nation are not facing lean times. We need to create green sustainable jobs in all communities that meet the needs of those communities without jeopardizing other communities, ecosystems and the planet.
Nestlé fact sheet: "Undermining Local Control of Water" 2009
http://www.stopcorporateabuse.org/sites/default/files/Nestle%20Fact%20Sheet%202009%20FINAL.pdf
Bottled Water - Food & Water Watch
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/water/bottled
Michigan Citizens for Water Conservation v. Nestle Waters North America, Inc.
http://www.justice4michigan.org/files/hfp_nestle_case.pdf
http://www.savemiwater.org/
Think Outside the Bottle - Corporate Accountability International
http://www.stopcorporateabuse.org/content/think-outside-bottle
http://www.stopcorporateabuse.org/content/communities-think-outside-bottle
http://www.stopcorporateabuse.org/water-news -
We need to create green sustainable jobs in all communities that meet the needs of those communities without jeopardizing other communities, ecosystems and the planet.
Okay, I'm not trying to be annoying but I will repeat myself, anyone out there we can use your business today in Cascade Locks. If you truly practice what you preach then come on down and bring the sustainable business with you. I wouldn't mind seeing a bakery, a bicycle shop, a veternarian, a doctor, a dentist, a pharmacy, a clothing store, a furniture shop or others locate here. Just to throw out some ideas.
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Andy,
This comment is so pathetic! These ideas are incredibly brilliant- so get off your rear and get out there and make it happen. It's disgusting to just see people waiting for a corporate or governmental handout. As much as these entities say it works that way, it doesn't. Look how we got into this economic mess in the first place!
If you open one of these shops, I will be happen to be a patron of it when I am in Cascade Locks. Good luck on your venture, should you choose to seize this amazing opportunity.
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Bubbles, or whatever.
I think you can make your comment without telling me I'm pathetic. Remember I LIVE here and you DON"T.
If it is YOUR type of businesses then bring YOUR money to Cascade Locks to start 'em up. Otherwise, why do you think the City is considering Nestle in the first place? It's not like a lot of other companies or individuals have shown interest or taken action to do so.
I don't think the folks who live here have to take direction from others with some sort of a master plan for our lives unless those people are willing to relocate here themselves.
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I want to edit my comment. I shouldn't have said Bubbles or whatever. Okay. But I also want to add, what makes you think Cascade Locks is a welfare state? We are not sitting on our butts waiting for handouts - that is why there are two proposals on the table. The casino and bottled water. It's just that (some) in Portland and elsewhere don't like those two concepts.
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I believe the facts are, even with producing wine, the output is less then the input. It takes more water to irrigate then the outcome of the product. I think any beverage is probably inherently less efficient then water. I would think people may be better off drinking bottled water then any other bottled beverage because of this ratio. So wine, beer and fruit drinks are all inherently worse for the environment then simply drinking water from a tap or from a bottle. Maybe someone can provide us with information to dispute this. I would be curious to find out.
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Well, I certainly wouldn't drink as much wine (or beer, or juice, etc) as water, for a start :) The point I was trying to make (not very well, I guess) is not how much water is used, but who has a say in how it's used. Once a private, for-profit corporation has control of your water source, only your money will talk (and maybe not even then).
While Nestle would be paying for the water, they would tie up large quantities of the available water (and going back to my original comment, no one can predict what the water supply will be like, or the demand on it, years from now). Add a larger population to a few years of drought (both realistic scenarios), and you have issues. As the 800-lb. gorilla on the block, Nestle would be certain to influence decisions made around the water source.
On the topic of glass vs. plastic, glass is silica-based and at least goes back into the earth eventually, when it's not recycled (although it can be unsightly)--it doesn't float around our waterways and impact wildlife in the way that plastic does.
I think the question is not so much which industries use more resources, but how they are used (and reused). I can think of other industries that could exist in Cascade Locks that would be less harmful than an outside behemoth like Nestle. I know it's hard to develop these things, but at this point, a choice can still be made....
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siduri,
I don't disagree with that. Letting a company fully control a water source is a problem, if that source is a resource for others. I can't imagine that they would have full control however, or how much of that resource they use. I think it is just a bad idea to confuse the ethics of bottled water with the ethics of the environmental impact of the plant itself. I have a feeling many object on the grounds that bottled water is (now) seen as a pariah, wrongly or rightly. Although to be fair, we do tend to object to building anything, except perhaps a bike shop or a dive bar. The objections to bottled water in relation to other things, just doesn't seem to make sense to me, no matter how I look at it. Making an argument against something, on what seems like thin ice, is a bad idea. It shatters credibility and makes it harder the next time.
Glass is heavier then plastic, which must have an impact through transportation.Also, unless we decide to all agree to stop drinking bottled water, it will come from somewhere---from some other backyard. It seems like the prudent action would be to do it here with accurate and effective restrictions.
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Dive bars are welcome too, bring em on down to Cascade Locks. And we won't serve out of bottles just straight from the tap into people's mouths. That will create additional jobs as we will need plenty of people to mop the floor.
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Urban Legends
Should I Be careful what information I pass on as truth? One can prove anything with the right facts, and a persuasive personality.
I recieve so much predigested information, with a "preapproved reality" full of buzz words I'm sure I know the meaning of.
Truth, what is it? Where is it? Webster - truth - noun (pl. truths) the quality of being true; in accordance with facts or reality. Makes sense to me, in accordance, according to...facts or reality. Ah, the slippery part "reality". Whose reality?
It seems there are multiple realities in every story. Imagine a circle and people are standing on the circumferance looking towards the center. Everyone is going to see something slightly different. Is one person right and another wrong? What is my angle on that story. How do I make that information usable for a "how should I then live" reality.
Corporations want to sell us on their profitable ideas. Enviornmentalists want to redirect our guilty footsteps. Community activists want to stir our emotional pot. How do I manuever through this informational maze and come out on the other side, sane and productive? Not prone to perpetuating urban legends. It is my responsibility to reset my pompous ___ and do my homework.
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Machu Picchu just outlawed plastic bottles, where are we on this "Green Oregon"?
http://www.livinginperu.com/news/9437
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more on Nestlé and what to expect:
Small Towns vs. Nestlé - Jenny Tomkins - In These Times 6/28/09
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/06/28-0 -
I am appreciative and conscious of the difficulty of these times we are in, and how hard it is for people to live. If the folks in Cascade Locks are determined to sell their water, a rich natural resource that few other places have, then they can do much better in the long run, by choosing a different company than Nestle. They absolutely are not the type of company you would wish to deal with over the long run, as they have proven such by their record.
Choose an alternative company, go search for another more responsible and responsive company, then make an informed and wise decision, and give it a trial period to assess.
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I have read through most the comments, and I appreciate peoples concern for the Gorge and personal vendettas against bottled water.
What I do not appreciate is people basing their facts against media generated opnion. Words, Words, Words..we can sway this in any direction we want and do know that the media is quite capable of this. Most of the facts brought up against Nestle Waters is from a few articles. Why not contact the City Admistrators and officials of ALL the towns in North America and then give a valid link to the dealings of NWNA regarding bottling plants in small towns.
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The City of Black Diamond did just that. Very few answered them. One of the towns admitted that Nestle had purchased a plant from a previous owner. One town was in Canada. One of the surveys was answered by the township clerk who admitted she was personally indebted to Nestle. The City officials are not always the most unbiased observers.
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I believe Katelin has a good point. The city often "pushes" a staff recommendation onto the decision makers without giving them multiple options to choose from. There needs to be some independent info gathering. I agree with emprssgrge as well.
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I would encourage those involved closely with this issue to question the credibility of David Palais, the Natural Resources manager Nestle has placed in the Pacific Northwest. I just finished listening to the show and he stated that he has a PhD in hydrogeology. He said he received his degree from Arizona State University. Being interested in hydrogeology myself I quickly searched his name and Arizona State on google only to find out that Arizona State claims David Palais has a degree in metamorphic petrology. See ASU's website where he and his degree are stated: http://amoroso101.asu.edu/alumni/alumni_news.html.
I have an undergraduate degree in enviromental studies combined with geology, and from my education and understanding metamorphic petrology does not necessarily have anything to do with hydrogeology. However, I was not able to find his dissertation, which may, somehow, be related to hydrogeology, as metamorphic processes can involve water. I am just brining this point up in hopes that others who can look into the facts a bit further.
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Will residents of Cascade Locks be in this position several years down the road?
David v. Goliath: Help Michigan Citizens Protect Their Water from Nestle's Bottling Operations - Leslie Samuelrich - Corporate Accountability International 7/1/09
http://www.alternet.org/story/141052/
Excerpt:
"It's been nine years now since Michigan Citizens for Water Conservation first went to court to stop Nestlé from pumping millions of gallons from a rural Michigan wildlife preserve....
The case could have been over in 2003, when a judge determined that Nestlé's withdrawal of 400 gallons of water a minute was having a negative impact on several local streams and ponds, and called a halt to the pumping. But the pumping never stopped. Nestlé appealed and hired its own scientists to produce studies that validated its operations. To counter Nestlé's efforts, the community has had to continue to hire lawyers and experts and the fees are piling up. Nestlé has run the community dry in more ways than one."
For additional information, see the Alternet article archives on Nestle and bottled water at the links below:
http://www.alternet.org/tags/nestle/
http://www.alternet.org/tags/bottled%20water/ -
We received the following email from Brock Howell, an advocate for Environment Oregon who was unable to post:
Environment Oregon, for whom I advocate, opposes allowing the first Nestle bottling facility in the PNW. It’s a bad for Oregon’s leadership on water privatization, human health, and the environment.
By 2025, 2/3 of the world's water is expected to run short. The privatization and monopoly control of these waters have had & will have a substantial impact on the world's poor. Here, Nestle will purchase well water for $0.002/gal. & sell bottled water for $1.40/gal.
The more expensive water is of worse quality. NRDC found 20% of bottled water exceeds state bacterial limits. The FDA, who regulates bottled water, lacks the same regulations and enforcement as the EPA who regulates tap water. And carcinogenic phthalates leach into the bottled water.
The biggest problem with bottled water is the environmental impact. ODFW & Water Res. Dep't will conduct studies of adequacy of replacement water for fry fish survival and of water right impairment. This won't consider the full impacts:
1. The study must consider the fish fry's ability to live in the well water, and their ability to return to place of origin.
2. The study must consider whether a 75% withdrawal of the city’s well water rights allows sustainable gw recharge.
3. The production of plastics requires toxic chemicals, negatively impacting the environment.
4. Bottled water is transported by truck and often store-refrigerated, increasing global warming pollution.
5. Nestle will add 110 new trucks per day to the I-84 corridor, increasing road wear and congestion.
6. The world recycling rate is 3.5%. Oregon's bottle bill now covers bottled water, but our recycling rate is plummeting and most other states don't even have a bottle bill. Plastic bottles take 450 years to breakdown in landfills. And a mass of debris (80% plastic), twice the size of the Continental United States, floats in the Pacific Ocean, directly harming 267 different species and killing more than 1 million seabirds and 100,000 marine mammals and turtles each year through ingestion and entanglement. 80% of this floating mass is made of plastics.
Before we allow Nestle's facility into the PNW, let's first stop & consider the full ramifications of plastic bottled water. -
Comments are now closed.
Why does Nestle want to build a plant in the Gorge or is Oregon wooing Nestle? What is the water's source and is it reliable and replinishable?
Egad, I hope they're not planning on bottling Columbia River water <frowny face>. Columbia with its sewage, Hanford, agricultural runoff, etc., would need to be heavily treated. Hopefully water is supplied from the Cascades like Portland's Bull Run Watershed.
Cascade Locks needs jobs so I would consider looking into Nestle's plan closely, especially if Nestle ships the water within the northwest to minimize transporation/carbon footprint costs. The proposed Cascade Locks casino would be a luxury whereas clean, good-tasting drinking water is a necessity.
I'm concerned that plastic water bottles are an environmental and human health problem. Plastic bottles contaminate water they contain.