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These are good days to be a sociable medical marijuana user. The Obama administration announced a few months ago that marijuana dispensaries acting in accordance with state law won't be prosecuted. And a few weeks ago the Justice Department released a fuller memorandum outlining their new priorities:
For example, prosecution of individuals with cancer or other serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law, or those caregivers in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law who provide such individuals with marijuana, is unlikely to be an efficient use of limited federal resources.
A few local groups were eager to hear this national news. Last month, the state's first private medical marijuana club (or "vaporizer lounge") opened in Southeast Portland. And the second such club, sponsored by Oregon NORML, is opening next week.
These are private clubs, and there are restrictions: first and foremost you must be an Oregon Medical Marijuana Program cardholder as a patient, a caregiver, or a grower. And if you want to gain access to the new club — in a restaurant called Rumpspankers in Northeast Portland — you'll also have to become a member of Oregon NORML.
Anti-marijuana activists see all of this as one more example of medical marijuana being used to circumvent pot prohibitions. And they hope to put an initiative on the 2010 ballot to repeal Oregon's Medical Marijuana Act.
If you're a medical marijuana user, are you interested in visiting one of the new cafes? How would smoking in a cafe be different for you than, say, inviting other card-carrying friends over to house for a few hours?
If you're against the medical use of marijuana, what would it mean to you to have a cafe in your neighborhood?
And what effect might these clubs have on the movement to decriminalize (or even legalize) marijuana use?
UPDATE: We'll start the show talking about the anti-trust suit against Intel with Matthew Kish of the Portland Business Journal.
GUESTS:
- Steve Geiger: Owner of High-Way 420
- Tom Bergin: Clatsop County sheriff and one of three chief petitioners for a 2010 initiative to repeal Oregon's Medical Marijuana Act
- Madeline Martinez: Executive director of Oregon NORML and a medical marijuana patient, caregiver and grower
- Mike Regan: Police commander for El Cerrito Police Department and associate member of the California Chiefs Medical Marijuana Task Force
Tagged as: marijuana
Photo credit: Christine Jump / Creative Commons
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I have been a Caregiver and Grower for one person for 4+ years in the Oregon program.The state has avoided greater scrutiny because we don't use MONEY in the mix. The program allows a grower to grow for unto 4 people (99 plants). There are alternatives to clubs. I know President Obama has told the federal agencies to back of. I think the system work well. Mark
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Anti-cannabis activist have no right to deny medicine to patients, nor deny a recreational substance to users. Smoking, eating and vaporizing cannabis has no effect on anyone, but the individual using cannabis. Is it not a constitutional right that we may do what we like with our bodies?
I will be sure to spread the word against the 2010 ballot measure to keep safe access open to medical patients. Hopefully I will also be able to vote for legalization of cannabis in the state of oregon sometime in the near future.
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It would of course make complete sense for all drugs to be legal. But in the case of medical marijuana you certainly wonder how 'medical' it actually is? I suppose, it is easier for our society to swallow a lie, rather then logically decide what is a good idea. What must the percentage be of medicinal users that didn't use marijuana prior to their alleged illness? I have to assume it is terribly small. Perhaps these are the kind of compromises we have to make, these small steps, to get to the legalization of drugs. But, I wonder where the compromises get us in the end? Do we ever reach the goal?
Mr. Obama and the Democrats have compromised the single payer and public option so it essentially doesn't exist. Around the country few gays can marry. The baby steps of domestic partnerships, to make homosexual unions more palatable to the public are insulting to both sides. Doesn't medical marijuana do the same? Is this the type of deception necessary to reform our culture and country? If they slowly whittle away at abortion rights, through roundabout disingenuous legislation, can they trick away our choice? This is the way both sides have come to play the game. Isn't there a better way to get things done?
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In some ways I agree with you. I wish cannabis could be legalized outright, but I doubt that would happen easily. Most of the public would flat out refuse.
The way I see it, if cannabis is legal for medical reasons, maybe more medical research will be done. Through this research the truth will eventually come out (cannabis is less harmful than tobacco and alcohol and probably not even harmful at all). With more studies and truthful research the public will finally begin to see that it should be legalized. Maybe some people will even start to use it for a headache instead of advil (which you can overdose on, but you CAN'T overdose on cannabis.) Time will only tell...
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To be truthful, I don't use drugs on philosophical grounds. I also in some ways resent that drugs are illegal because in many ways it gives them an edge they don't deserve. It is also offensive to treat an addiction or a habit with a fervent religious devotion. It may be hard to say reasonable marijuana use is specifically bad, but there is certainly nothing to say it is good. Yes, if people want to do it, let them do it. But don't package the use or the product as a panacea to save humanity. It is a drug, not an emancipator. We all should have the right to use marijuana if we desire it, but lets not overstate its blessings. We have enough of that with the Jesus freaks.
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I am not a Marujuana smoker but I don't understand what the problem is, why do American people always feel like they have a say in other people's life...why can't America get rid of this Parent feeling. People don't make as much noise about cell phone use while driving although it has been proven that it's more dangerous to other people.
I quote Ben Harper here "
"If you don't like my fire, don't come around
my choice is what I choose to do
and if I'm causing no harm
it shouldn't bother you" -
Marrinal is not he same. There are compound in the plant the does now show-up in the capcil.
Mark
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Isn't marinol synthetic, and defeat the purpose of natural medication?
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Tom Bergin's suggestion of using marinol is absurd. If he would have actually done some research and talked with doctors and patients he would have dsicovered marinol is often not as effective as cannabis.
Marinol only contains a ONE of the beneficial cannabinoids that cannabis flowers have. There some 20 odd cannabinoids that interact with the body each having different effects. Unfourtunately not enough research has been done to see what they all do because the plant is illegal.
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Marinol is 30 dollars a pill and contains only 1 of the dozens of active ingredients in Cannabis that patients find theraputic. The argument that Marinol is an effective alternative is false.
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Let me begin by stating that I believe ALL currently illegal drugs should be legal. This includes heroin, meth, cocaine, pot, etc. Why? Because addicts and users will always be here, so society should profit off of them, instead of our current policy of ignoring or imprisoning them, at great expense. By criminalizing drugs, it ultimately benefits a few (the dealers) at great cost to everyone else.
Now, having said that, I am a medical provider in family medicine, and I can personally attest that "medical marijuana" is, overall, a joke. It is easily and freely abused by people whose medical need is questionable at best. I could give dozens of examples, but won't for expediency. (And I will acknowledge that there are SOME legitimate cases where pot may be the only drug that can alleviate malignant pain - but these are not the usual "medical marijuana" card holders.) My problem with the "medical marijuana" card is that it asks medical professionals to get involved in a situation where they don't belong. You want to get high all day legally? Great - go for it. But don't ask me to give my medical imprimatur to your lifestyle choice.
The fact that there are "smoking clubs" for medical pot users, in my opinion, is one more item of proof that most users are using it for less than medically appropriate reasons. For example, do you see any other group of patients who need to chronically use a medication wanting to get together to take their pills/injections/etc? No, you only see this among addicts - heroin/meth/coke users all sitting around, wanting to get high together. Is that who "medical marijuana" users want to compare themselves to?
Again, before you start writing your pro-pot letters, and telling me what a backward fascist I am - remember, I am fully behind legalizing all drugs. Users will always be users. But don't cloak it behind a stamp of medical approval.
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It's not easy to get Michael....and it has nothing to do with lifestyle....you are a smart person....go on over to MAMA's and try to get the card...if it is so easy....why don't you have one? And...what kind medical provider in family medicine are you? I don't know many real doctors who would speak this way about potential pain relief for their patients.
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I think your anecdotal evidence matches my anecdotal evidence, and frankly I have not read a rigorous academic paper that proves any significant medical benefit. This is a conversation about legalizing a drug, not a medicine.
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A question for Madeline:
Do you think that there are people who abuse the cardholder privelege? Are there people who are granted cards for conditions that don't really warrant medical use?
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Go check it out yourself....go over to MAMA's in SE Portland.....try to get a OMMP card without two years of private sector medical records and approval by the on-site doctor....you won't get past the front door.
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HA! People abuse this privilege all the time... "I'll take your card, and your plants... make a profit". Perhaps obtaining the card is hard, but once you get the card, you can pretty much do whatever you want. People feel like it is a free pass to use. They share their weed with non-cardholders. I smoked pot for ten years, and quit completely a year ago because it was destroying my life. I'm sick of people making excuses for marijuana. It is a drug. It is addictive. It will destroy your life, like other addictive drugs.
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Sure people may abuse it. But weigh the consequences and the benefits. If someone gets high when its not medically necessary, what is the consequence to society? It is just about the least addictive substance out there. And some people really do benefit.
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Typical law enforcement point of view from the Clatsop County "officer." Laughing when the interview started...using words like "legitimate doctor"....scams.."you guys"....."Obamas latest"...and other just ignorant views. So, all folks who take pain medication stay home from work? It took two years, with legitimate doctors for me to gain the OMMP card for acute and chronic pain....just more of the same from the law enforcement folks...they will never understand OMMP, just like they will never understand weaker members of society..such as the mentally ill...they have such a great track record out in Clatsop.....ignornance is bliss for these folks...they are so brainwashed....do us all a favor...focus on meth users and follow the OMMP rules....your war on drugs has been lost for years and it's time to move resources away from your efforts towards real public safety issues....jeez....get informed ok?
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I totally agree this guest obviously has a bone to pick and is totally unwilling to hear any point of view but spends his time judging. Glad I don't live in his county.
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I was a caregiver for a relative dying of pancreatic cancer. his use of marijuana calmed his anxiety and helped him reduce the naseau enabling him to eat. As a State Social Worker I was reduced to criminal activity to obtain a supply, endangering my career and job. He didn't have the time for me to grow it, but no one should be placed in that position. Legal sources are critical for these patients and their families. Becky
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Genreal Question,
What's wrong with smoking in your home?
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Nothing I love it :)
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I would like to hear the panel members' opinions on making health care available for all. As leaders in the community, it seems like good thing to make a connection between their opinions about various matters. It's all very well and good talking about access to doctors and prescription drugs, but what about for those who do not have access to doctor's/insurance/etc. (And I'm not saying that medical marijuana is solely for those who have no other options.) And the cost of using MM (and the amount people profit by this use) pales in comparison to the money made from the synthetics/insurance option.
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Marijuana should be legalized. The state should take a cut to help educate users in the safe, medicinal and spiritual uses of marijuana, and to take care of the problems that will occur. Can we have an enlightened and compassionate society?
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Not if we use drugs to "enlighten" people. That is not true compassion at all.
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Police have a vested interest in maintaining all forms of prohibition. Their financial future depends upon maintaining the status quo. There is no doubt that they do not represent the doctors and the patients who prescribe and use Medical Marijuana. I refuse to have my personal private health decisions, judged, authorized, or in anyway reviewed by the police. There are plenty of other reasonable and needed services that the police could concentrate on, but none that bring them as much money as prohibition. If a patient uses marijuana to reduce the effects of pain, psychological disorders, or any other medical issue, there is no place in the decision for the police. Except, maybe, in Iran.
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Tom Bergin displays clear biased against the legitimacy of any medical marijuana use. I would like him to address this belief particularly, apart from his career choice. That is I would like him to talk about his personal feelings about marijuana. To me it seems he is approaching this issue with naiveté and fear.
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Police have a vested interest in maintaining all forms of prohibition. Their financial future depends upon maintaining the status quo. There is no doubt that they do not represent the doctors and the patients who prescribe and use Medical Marijuana. I refuse to have my personal private health decisions, judged, authorized, or in anyway reviewed by the police. There are plenty of other reasonable and needed services that the police could concentrate on, but none that bring them as much money as prohibition. If a patient uses marijuana to reduce the effects of pain, psychological disorders, or any other medical issue, there is no place in the decision for the police. Except, maybe, in Iran.
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Your guest Tom Bergin seems to think he knows who "needs" medication and who doesn't, he wouldn't happen to be a doctor as well as a sheriff would he? As a person who deals with constant and very difficult chronic pain I need to stress that having law enforcement and politicians make every attempt to regulate how I should treat my pain is absolutely absurd. I do not use cannabis, but pills prescribed by my doctor. These pills have much worse side affects than any amount of cannabis, and are addictive as well. Also, those of us with chronic pain are constantly made to feel like pariahs by the public, law enforcement and even our own doctors. Our doctors do not give us narcotic medication according to our need as much as they are forced to follow federal regulations.
It is bad enough I was run over by a truck (the driver was only given a ticket for running a red light, then plea bargained to "defective vehicle"), now law enforcement wants to punish me for attempting to feel normal? Shame on you Mr. Bergin, you are not protecting the public. Consider your ignorance of who "needs" pain medication a blessing.
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Mr. Gieger's discussion this morning and the Bend Bulletin Editorial page about hwy240 offer different descriptions of what is going on. Is the paper not doing its homework or is Mr. Gieger misrepresenting the vapor?
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Marijuana is a drug. I'm sure that drinking lots of alcohol "lessens pain" etc. for people, but it is widely recognized as having psychotropic effects that are unintended. People want to smoke pot and have it legal and so they are pushing to have it be recognized as a medicine. This is not a new phenomena, remember the "medicinal beer" movement back in the 1920s. I personally think drugs should be legal, but let's not kid ourselves with this medicine nonsense. Marijuana is a drug, and effects your brain negatively like many other psychoactive drugs.
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So does oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone. Not only do they affect the brain negatively but the liver and kidney as well. Do you not consider these FDA approved medications medicine? Your logic as to what is and what isn't medicine astounds me. When it is shown that canabanoids found ONLY in cannabis have the ability to shrink brain tumors but the fact that it also gives the user a sense of euphoria, or as you would say "effects your brain negatively", causes it not to be considered medicine? All due respect missblue, you're logic makes no sense.
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Law enforcement has some of the BEST HEALTH CARE in the country!
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Have all the people trying to prevent medical marijuana or legalize marijuana used marijuana? If they don't understand what it does, then they should not try to ban it.
Also, it is a drug. Anyone can overdose on any drug, legal or illegal, prescribed or not.
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Are you serious? So nobody should say "herion should be illegal" until they have done herion? Just because you think smoking pot is not a big deal doesn't mean you should suggest that everyone should smoke it.
And then you go on to say people can overdose, which of course is case specific. So are you saying that bad outcomes are linked to overdose? I have not read any literature establishing what an overdose line for marijuana is. This is not a clear concept at all.
Regular dosage of marijuana (which like I mentioned is a weakly defined variable at best) has been linked to adverse outcomes such as psychotic breaks. We should certainly not be going around saying people should try marijuana because it is so safe.
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Intel
Corporate Crime goes way up when Conservative Republicans are in power because they effectively deregulate just by not enforcing laws. What we are seeing now is a return to living by the rule of law and so these cases are being brought to light.
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The Clackamas County Sheriff has a snide outlook that does a disservice to his position. His characterizations are not respectful but derrogatory and he did not contribute to the discussion. Next time get someone from law enforcement who can articulate a worthwhile position, not this bozo.
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I support legalization, but medical marijuana bugs me. From my blog, ThePotatoBarn.net:
On medical marijuana: yes, it has benefits for terminal patients, and they should have access to it. But most “medical marijuana patients” are doing an excellent job at scamming the system. And why not? It’s easy, especially in California. Just ask Steve Lopez of the L.A. Times.
So let’s be honest: many people who buy and sell medical marijuana are smokers first and patients second. I’m sorry, but when your product starts catering to “the discerning connoisseur,” you’re no longer selling a medicine that helps people deal with pain. You’re pushing a pleasurable escape.
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So please, drug advocates: be honest with your goals. State up front that you believe adult marijuana use should be decriminalized...Stop trotting out old cancer patients and exploit their suffering for your right to get high. Just be straight with us.
You can read the full post at: http://thepotatobarn.net/2009/10/30/my-problem-with-pro-pot-pushers/
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I would like to point out that Prozac, Airplane Glue, Cough Syrup and Tobacco, Marijuana, Alcohol, and Heroin are different from each other in many critical ways. Marijuana is not a drug, it is a leaf. Anyone who thinks it should be criminalized is annoying. It is a shame that some see cancer patients as being stepping stones to citizens' rights to relegalize marijuana. But whose fault is that? durrrrr...
Not to beat a dead horse (though it sounds fun), the position that Alcohol should be legal while Cannabis should be criminalized is bat-shit insane. The position is entirely based on economic and judicial exploitation. Alcohol is a key factor in around half of murders, rapes and other violent crimes including child molestation. (don't relegalize pot!) Alcohol is responsible for too many fatalities, destroyed lives, and obliterating addictions.
So whose pushing a pleasurable escape here? Sounds like only the Cannabis Dogooders. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Ooh, too bad - your position won't allow it!!!
Seriously. Stupid horse...
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The leaf is perhaps not a drug. Once the leaf is ingested, it becomes a drug in a medicinal sense. This argument is one of semantics not substance. 'Poison' from a natural substance or animal (such as venom) is still poison.
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Nearly three years ago I sat in a hospital emergency room with my husband who had broken multiple vertebrae in his thoracic spine. He was in excruciating pain and the doctors told him he was lucky he wasn't paralyzed.
For the next two years, we heard from doctors that the only way to combat the excruciating chronic pain my husband was suffering, and would continue to suffer, was to take the prescription narcotics (Oxycontin, etc) they were throwing at him...for the rest of his life. These legal drugs create a greater and greater dependence on them because the body requires more of the drug to manage the pain. This is no way to live!!
While I consider myself a progressive thinker in all facets of life, I admit that I was uneasy when my husband suggested getting a medical marijuana card (particularly because of the very stigma I'm seeing associated with it right here on this comment board). On the other hand, I had watched a whole host of symptoms crop up as a result of the painkiller narcotics doctors were throwing at him...the worst of it being that they were not helping his pain.
My husband terminated his use of synthetic painkillers and has been eating medicinal marijuana to manage his pain. We are also no longer paying hundreds of dollars a month for prescriptions, money that goes to pharmaceutical companies of whom I am exceptionally skeptical. I have watched my husband come from a state of utter depression, excruciating pain and frustration to a happier, healthier place. My husband will live the rest of his life in chronic pain. It brings both of us peace to know that we have found a medicine that is kinder to his body with very minimal side effects to provide him a quality of life. I'm frustrated by those who pass judgment on us for going this route.
As for these clubs?? I don't know. Part of me feels like it's people taking advantage of or celebrating their legal ability to use this otherwise illegal drug. However, there IS a stigma attached to this drug and there ARE people who are legitimately using it. Perhaps these clubs will create a support network for those who feel judged for choosing a medicine that they feel works best for them. I really don't feel it's my right to judge.
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Comparing Marijuana to venom is assinine. Unless of couse your making some semantic argument (or something silly like that!) Furthermore, we ingest many thousands of substances considered drugs in the medical sense (what other sense is there?) on a daily basis. Cannabis is different from Venom in many critical ways. So is every 'Poison' unique. I do not deny that Marijuana is a drug in the medical sense. This statement is not my entire argument.
The statement that "Marijuana is not a drug, it is a leaf" is perhaps a flawed semantic argument, but its only aim is to call into incredulity of the scheduling system as per DEA policy that ranks Marijuana in the same category as Heroin and Acid. I don't see Medical Acid card-holders. I don't see anyone arguing that Heroin is helpful to people. If Marijuana is so horrible and dangerous, why do so many people use it so successfully as members of society for decades on end? Marijauna is not Venom either.
scottmil, what about my argument about Alcohol? Alcohol is a drug(though I was not taught these fine semantic boundaries in D.A.R.E.) However, critical thinking, research, science, and common sense (personal experiance and anecdotal evidence) find that Alcohol is a far more dangerous Poison than is Marijuana, even though they are both drugs in the medical sense.
How will you dismiss this argument?
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Perhaps, I should have been more clear, because I forgot marijuana makes some people paranoid (just kidding). I wasn't saying marijuana was a poison at all, I was using that as an example of how a category, can contain both natural and synthetic chemical substances. And that even if a poison occurred in a natural state, from an animal or plant, it is still a poison, just as marijuana is still a drug (albeit a natural one).
Many people use marijuana unsuccessfully, just as many people use alcohol successfully. I think people should be allowed to do both legally. Quite frankly even if marijuana rotted brains in a matter of seconds, I wouldn't care whether they used it or not---providing it didn't turn them into monsters that came around to kill me. So whether or not it is healthy doesn't interest me. It doesn't effect my stand that it should be legal.
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The best leg that the sherriff had to stand on against the cafes is the risk of impaired driving. I know drunk driving is extremely dangerous and want all drunk drivers off the road, but that doesnt mean i think we should close down all bars in Oregon. I just don't see how the cannabis cafes would significantly add to the ocurrence of driving while impaired.
The Sherriff may also be right that it is a bit of a "scam." Sure, many people will find loopholes and smoke in the cafes when they don't really need to. But if the cafe helps only 10 people who REALLY need it, people whose apartment prohibits smoking, or they cannot take another pain medication (i.e. their liver is compromised so they cannot take vicodin or oxycotton), and for those ten people to get help a thousand people end up smoking pot who don't need it, then i think it is still worth it. As a taxpayer i don't care if a a thousand extra people are high off marijuana when it is not a medical necessity, because it is such a benign drug and they don't pose a threat to me. I am much more concerned about perscription pill addicts, alcoholics, meth addicts, etc. Those are the populations that we need to focus on and those are the people that need the most help, and these substances are more costly to society as a whole.
ONE MORE POINT- I found it truly offensive that Sheriff Tom Bergin was belittling the pain of Madeline Martinez and callers on the show. He said "oh i have herneated discs and I just deal with it." Good for you sir, I'm sure everyone's herneated discs are as easy to deal with as yours and they don't deserve pain medication. Yeah. Right. Its your choice to deal with your pain as you choose. Let other people deal with their pain, legally, as they choose.
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I was appalled at the level of bias displayed by Sheriff Tom Bergin. His glib dismissal of the pain of others truly shows his level of ignorance.
In addition, his logic is circular and terribly flawed. Marijuana is illegal and a drug, so it is bad. Marijuana is bad, so it must remain illegal. Round and round we go. 100% F.U.D.
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I agree the sheriff was biased. Straight out of the 60's and early 70's. Marijuana is a substance that should be legalized. Much safer than the other drugs we ingest, coffee, Etoh, tobacco. Still trying to use the gateway drug, BS the real gateway drug is tobacco. From there it leads to every thing else. Be honest. As for the medical marijuana issue I hate to but I do agree with him on this point.. Many of cardholders are scamming, as are the growers. Look at the arrests for illicet growing. Being in the Health care field I have seen users. Some small percent do use it for pain and nausea, Marinol does not work the same and it does cost. The vast majority seem to use it for diagnosis that can't be proven by X-ray, blood tests or any other tests. I have seen very few use it for joint pain that can be x-rayed, I do believe that most are using it for getting High. Pain is a tuff issue since we are taught to respond to any verbalization of pain, but when you see over and over some of these folk not showing any other symptom, grimicing speaking out etc. But just saying they are in pain and go forward as if nothing is wrong. I do honestly feel that many are scamming it through observation and experience. Since I do suffer from Chronic pain and take medication for it 3 times a day, my joints are done, I x-ray out for bone to bone contact, both knees and hips. I need replacement surgery, and I would never Use marijuana, I am waiting for my medicare to start. Don't get me started on Health care. So I do have experiance, with pain. It most deffinately needs cleaning up
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