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Between four and five thousand K-12 students in Oregon go to school online. They attend one of a number of online public charter schools sprinkled through the state. The Oregon Connections Academy, based in Scio, and the Oregon Virtual Academy in North Bend have waivers from the State Board of Education to accept students from anywhere in Oregon.
Others, like the Clackamas Web Academy or the many All Prep Academies, only draw from within their own school districts. Of course the relationship with the local district isn't always perfect. Take what's happening in Sisters, as an example.
But even as some schools face potential closure, administrators, educators, politicians, parents, and pupils agree on one main thing: online education as a whole is here to stay. But how should it exist?
One answer could come from the Legislature, which is voting on House Bill 3660. This is a follow-on to last session's Senate Bill 767, which stopped enrollment at online public charter schools. House Bill 3660
imposes requirements on virtual public charter schools related to budget and accounting system, tracking of student progress, administrator and teacher qualifications, student and school records and notification of enrollment and withdrawal.
What's your experience with online education? What are the benefits and drawbacks? What requirements should be placed on online charter schools? In days of strained education budgets how do online charter schools fit into the bigger picture of education across the state?
GUESTS:
- Rachelle Butcher: The mother of Buddy Butcher
- Buddy Butcher: 8th grade student at Oregon Virtual Academy
- Sara Gelser: Oregon State Representative (D-Corvallis)
- Todd Thorpe: Head of the Oregon Virtual Academy
- Courtney Vanderstek: Assistant executive director of the Oregon Education Association
- Dennis Dempsey: Superintendent at the High Desert Education Service District
Tagged as: school · special session
Photo credit: B Hollar
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I think this comment is fascinating. Online schools in Oregon are held to much higher standards than brick and mortar schools--as evidenced by HB3660. It certainly would be interesting to see a brick and mortar school undergo the scrutiny that online schools undergo on a continual basis and see what the results are. There is some notion that brick and mortar schools don't need the scrutiny; however, why are so many kids failing? Why do we have so many dropouts?
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Our family tried Connections Academy for Kindergarten for our son Damien. I am disabled and do not drive, so we thought that virtual school was right for us. We found that the cirriculum was not challenging and that Damien's social development was suffering from not being around other kids in a regular class. When it came time for him to go into the first grade, we enrolled him in the traditional public school, and he is accomplishing a lot more now, both academically and socially.
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We enrolled our son in ORCA Kindergarten this year even though he had fulfilled Kindergarten at our local B&M last year. Since he already has mastered many of the concepts we can breeze through them. He's on track to also finish 1st grade this year. This sort of flexibility is a huge benefit for students who progress at a different rate than the "average" learner.
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Online learning taps into a certain learning style. Your son may be a social learner and it's great he is going to school with kids his age. Older students, with more experience with technology, seem to take to online much more quickly.
Computers still put out small amounts of radiation, so it's good your kid is away from that as much as possible.
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Your story is quite valid.
Online schooling is not for everyone; just as the traditional, turn of the century, brick and mortar schools are not the answer for every child.
The Oregon Department of Education is like an ostrich with it's head in the ground if it cannot look ahead and see that some kind of hybrid educational system involving computer learning is somewhere in the close horizon.
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I have spent the last year working with Clackamas Web Academy, managing a federal grant that supports charter school’s efforts to share best practices with all public schools. In that role, I am examining what is working well at CWA, and working with schools throughout Oregon to use those elements to improve their programs. I think what people don’t realize is the really powerful elements of virtual schools – flexibility, curriculum that is never out-of-date, individualized learning plans for all students, advancing students based on what they know rather than seat-time, and valuing the parent as part of the teaching team – could provide answers for all public schools in Oregon. As a parent of a 2nd grader in a PPS “traditional” school, I sincerely hope the discussion switches from debating whether another parent should be allowed to choose on-line schooling for their child to what lessons all schools can learn from successful virtual schools.
Whitney Grubbs
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thank you Whitney! So very true!
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Online teaching and learning is subject to the same kind of issues that F2F (face-to-face) classroom education is: the quality of the teaching is the most important aspect of all formal learning. Online teaching has one additional hurdle and it's huge: technology. Some administrators and educators are under the illusion that you can simply transfer course content and instruction in the form of lessons into an online environment.
Online instruction requires strong facilitation and participation from both the instructor and the learners. A learning community must be developed in order to have meaningful learning in an online environment. I don't think that virtual education is appropriate for K-5 students unless they have other F2F activities to develop strong social skills and have adults who can help facilitate, inspire and support virtual learning.
On the other hand, I think virtual schools are ideal for those Grade 5- 12 students who dislike the dumbed down curriculum of public high schools, who are lost and ignored in high schools that host 1000's students and who are interested in having a voice and choice in their education.
Sue
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You've made some great points here Sue!
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My elementary-aged kids in our online virtual get WAY more quality F2F time with their learning coach than they EVER did with their teacher of 30+ students.
I completely agree with you that social development is critical and families need to find ways to foster interaction with other kids their age.
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As a high school teacher, I couldn't agree more. Thank you Sue.
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My experience with our online charter shcool is similar to PrestonBaxter's. Much more one-on-one time with the teacher; hours of personal attention.
Social interaction with a variety of ages in a variety of activities is a big plus for us. Our son's course work takes less time during the day leaving him much more time to interact and play (piano, swim team, HS/college chemistry classes, skiing/snowboarding) than his brick and mortar classmates that he still sees. They, on the other hand, seem bogged down with hours in school and homework. He actually feels sad for them.
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I think it should be up to the parents to decide what is best for their children with regards to wether their children are getting the F2F activities they need. My 4 children(2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th grades) are enrolled in a virtual academy. They are getting an outstanding education. They are also very involved in our church youth programs . I think our church programs add to their over all development. I feel they are getting the best of both worlds.
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I switched my children to Oregon Connections Academy because we had already spent 9 frustrating years in traditional public school, which we found to be ineffective and unresponsive to parental concerns. Classroom distractions and badly behaved children were impossible for the teachers to control - there is no discipline any more in a public school classroom. A friend who is a substitute teacher in middle school told me the other day "you just can't get the kids to shut up". After half a year now in ORCA, both my kids love it, they are doing great and feel like they are finally getting an education and learning something. My son, now in 9th grade, is finally caught up in math, which the traditional schools failed to teach him. Virtual school is not for everyone - there is a big sacrifice on the part of the parent, and not everyone can do what it takes. But why take away the choice for those kids like mine who would be failing in the traditional schools, whose parents can't afford private school, and who can't be homeschooled because their parents still have to work? Success in school has been shown to be improved by parental involvement - well, this is how I get involved in my kids education and I will fight for it to remain an option. It works and the curriculum is fantastic!
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As an online teacher, I rely heavily on my parents to do their part. How wonderful that online learning is working so well for your children!
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Ok, I'm a 58 y/o 'middle-aged' white guy *though still a kid at heart,* but I think I can add something valuable here. I am currently taking online classes at PCC, now being in my third term of same. It is an inherently different learning experience than a 3 D classroom. It requires computer literacy, which is a good thing - people who refuse to 'get with' the technology are going to be woefully left behind. You want to apply for jobs? Many, if not most, require applications to be filed online.
With online learning, one has to take more initiative, be 'more assertive' about 'raising your hand' and asking questions. These are skills that are good to be developed. There is more freedom since you can work at your own speed, in your own rhythm: want to take the exam at 3 AM? You can do that.
Of great importance is that many jobs in the future will be web-based, working from home via computer.
If one wants to compete in the future, taking online classes is a good way to prepare. It will force one to develop independence and time management skills.
Adapt or perish.
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I do feel that online schools are held to a higher standard and I would like to see the brick and mortar schools held to the same standards. I had my child enrolled in Oregon Connections Academy for Kindergarten last year and my only issue was that there were not enough activities for the children to meet and play outside of the school. I felt that it would have been helpful for there to be more activities for the children to play and socialize. It did require alot of effort on my part in order to teach my child and unfortunatly not everyone can do that. The benifits were that the education was much better then public schools. My child is at a very high reading level and now that he is in a brick and mortar school it's very hard for the school to take time out to advance him farther because the teachers are trying to keep every child on the same level instead of doing what is best for each child on a personal level. That is one of the upsides to charter schools is that if you child needs to advance or to stay back and work harder then there is lots of room for that. My son's teacher was very helpful and was always willing to do what was best for my son.
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My brother and wife both work in order to put thier kids in private schools. The reason is that they didn't want to deal with the overcrowded public schools. Talking with him, he pointed out that public schools tend to use a design called "teach to the middle" meaning the bright kids are bored the kids that need extra help barely get any, and like a bell curve the middle is concentrated on.
Online schools allow minds to progress at thier own rate, no distractions, in a safe environment. The only issue I might call out is the social one, but really I think thats becoming less and less a problem as we are all wired together via facebook, web cams, cell phones, virtual work places and instant information about parks and rec activities/extra Curricular activities.
We have a son who is in 9th grade, hes struggling continually in school with grades at the moment consisting of: 2D, 2F an A , B and a C. Hes a good person, with a kind and gentle heart, hes mellow, and has a memory that is amazing, he can stand there and recite entire scripts from movies. though his drive to engage at school is missing. The teachers don't seem to care one way or the other. So.... to me on-line schools are looking like they may be the solution. Not every person is cut out to be processed the same way though IMO the traditional school system tries to do just that "Teach to the middle"
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I definitely agree with this. Now that my child is in public school he isn't getting the same attention that he was getting while in Oregon Connections Academy. I try and supplement his learning at school with learning at home as well in order to give my child the knowledge that he needs and wants.
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Just wondering if the Legislature is going to require teachers in "brick and morter" schools to spend a fixed amount of time with a student?
I can recall many a day when I spoke to know one all day in HighSchool. No one seemed to be concerned as long as I maintained a good grade point.
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Was spelling in your curriculum in your illegal home school? Your post strengthens those that argue against home schooling.
For example: legal, parents, opportunities and her name was Anne Frank with an “e”
But of course, I misspelled a couple words in my own post - and in the issue of fairness thought I would point that out here as well.
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echolynch - don't be rude. that's not the point. in fact, i am an english teacher not using capitals on purpose. perhaps that is EXACTLY WHY the parent has made that choice for their student. perhaps that parent wasn't best served by the schools he/she attended. the parent has a right to choose the best education opportunity for his/her child.
there's a REASON American public school education is called the "great experiment" - it has been and will continue to be a work in progress, the key word being PROGRESS. the discussion needs to be focused on LEARNING and not MONEY.
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Thanks, it's actully a learning disability. I do my best, a challenge every day. Not that the public schools cared, diagnosed, or treated me as anything but lazy and stupid.
It is so noce to see that prejudice carried over into the blog.
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We live in a rural community where the public school for our family is just NOT an option. The quality of education that they offer is not good. If we didn't have the K-12 option then we wouldn't be in public schools we would be homeschooling.
This quality of education is excellent! It lets our children learn at home from parents who know them best, rather than getting lost in a classroom of 30 or more. Plus, they can learn at their own speed.
Our teacher is available to us at all time. The supplys are staggeringly wonderful. The curriculum is fantastic!
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I sense a trend.
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lol echolynch! I would agree with you my spelling is "Challenged." I am the reason that they invented spell check! However, my kids are AMAZING spellers!
The difference? I went to a "real" school...with 30+ other kids my own age... My kids ....they don't.
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I can see where the option of online school would be very nice for some families. However there are so many things on a computer with internet that could distract a child. They could easily do a test in one window and have a second window open to look up the answers. Not to mention that with starting the day so late with out a regular schedule doesn't help students get used to having to keep a schedule. What happens when they're thrown into the world of working & can't get up at 8am every day because they never did in school growing up?
I have taken some online classes in college and found out the hard way that they just aren't the thing for me. I'm the hands on type of person who needs a proper learning environment with a teacher there to help me and students around me to learn from as well, to really get the most out of my education.
I think it's vital for kids to be in a class room of some sort to really get the whole learning experience. How does a kindergardner learn what is and isn't socially acceptable and how to interact with people?
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Research it online. It is actually not healthy for children to have to get up at 5 or 6 am, especially in teenagers. My family personally wakes up at around 7 am and we are doing school by 9am. The difference is that if they are tired or cranky (as kids are) we are flexible. We have all day to do the classes. We have even taken a break and ran outside to play for an hour and then come back to science.
As for the distractions. Yes they are there. But it is my job as thier "learning coach" to keep them ontrack. ORVA also offers online classes to the parents on how to set up a learning environment.
As for the 'socialization' issue. We are out and about A LOT more than the average school child. We are at the liberary, zoo, beach, aquarium, social clubs, church, and sports activities. The difference is that my kids are learing to interact with people of ALL ages...not just kids thier own age.
But when it comes right down to it, the kids are involved in their own learning. They can choose what to learn when they want to learn it. And it is MY job, with the assistance of their teacher, to try to guide them in thier learning experience.
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I think it's wonderful you've found something that works for your family, however not every one can stay home with their kids while they do online classes, I'm worried about the families who think it's an easy out and aren't prepared for the "job" of helping their children with the online classes or who don't work at home and think they can still do it.
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It's anything BUT an "easy out." It takes considerable time, dedication, and sacrifice on the part of the parent or aunt or grandparent or whoever works with the child. It takes away my time from TV, reduces my hours at work, prevents my wife from pursuing her hobbies to the extent she might otherwise.
But for us, those sacrifices are worth the benefits to our students. We get to spend quality time with them, 1-on-1, learning right along with them. We share both their frustrations when dealing with difficult concepts or assignments, and also their happiness at achieving success.
We are extremely happy with the flexibility offered by the curriculum. One student works well early in the morning, while another works better in the evenings. Why "force" kids to fit their schedules to an arbitrary timeframe, just because the majority of adults do?
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I'm not saying you are choosing an easy out, I realize the commitment that the online classes require, I myself have taken them in College. I'm worried that some families won't realize the commitment it requires and think of it as an easy out, when it really isn't. I suggested below that maybe we should have students first trying it out to do 1/2 and 1/2 so they can experience both at the same time and chose then which is best for them.
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We also know people who have "tried it out" and decided traditional school worked better for them. I don't see much harm in test-driving to see how it works! :+)
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I would like to see Portland Public Schools consider some of the online options to cerate a combination online/B&M school, rather than keep closing smaller local schools and forcing students to travel farther and farther to be warehoused in larger schools where they have no community connections or, alternatively, to loose the options for expanded learning.
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As a mental health professional and educator, I applaud the work of online schools. They are providing an innovative service that is unlocking a positive learning experience for k-12 kids who cannot be reached with the traditional face-to-face environment.
I understand how change can be threatening - in this case to 'brick and mortar' school employees. But this is a win-win-win - for families, kids, and schools as educators listen to the needs of kids who have not - and cannot - be served by traditional settings.
As with all forms of education, we need to be open to change and adaptation to improve what and how we do what we do. In this case, like face-to-face learning environments, of course hybrid and online learning environments must also evaluate its processes as this specialized learning environment matures.
On behalf of families, I hope Oregon continues to support the online learning environment.
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This deeply concerns me. Children spending time on the computer, not outside in the air, learning to interact with other youth. Online learning is an isolated way of information retention, but how will it impact his resume in the future when Buddy lists an online learning high school. This young man wakes up at 11:00, when other youth learn the patterns of waking up early and creating healthy routines. As an adult, it may be difficult to adjust to the "real" world.
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I agree but I do feel that as long as there are activities to supplement socialization than online schools would be a great option for children and parents. My son doesn't spend alot of time outside. Also there have been alot of studies on children's learning habits and when the best time for children to learn is and the best time for children to start learning is usually sometime after 10 am.
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You are making the mistake that the whole world takes place on a 9-5.
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Online students can actually spend more time "outside in the air" and in interactive activites of their own choice than kids in classrooms.
ALso, your vision of the "adult" world seems awfully regimented and pinched. Creative people can live however they wish to live as far as daily schedules. What is wrong with getting up at 11? (and is that a.m. opr p.m.?)
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Bricks and mortar schools can also be incredily isolating for children with social challenges. Most families choosing online schools (or home schooling for that matter) are extremely social and seek truly social activities (sports, music, play...).
As for the "real" world - lots of people work from home now or work swing shift/graveyard... not everyone keeps banker's hours...
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This is 2010 we should be embracing the technology not running from it. The way we educate our children is out of touch with reality. If a child can get through a math class in 4 months why should he have to take 9 months just because others are taking that long. As usual this is about the public school teachers thinking they are the only ones that can teach children.. I am appaled that the First grade teachers at Mary Woodward and Deer Creek elementary school's in the Tigard school district. Hired Lobbyists to prevent this great tool from reaching more children.
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As a certified teacher in 3 states, I know that it is the whole world that teaches our children and it IS unfortunate that scared teachers and lobbyists are selfishly worried about their own check instead of embracing the incredible learning that happens online.
We must adapt or die..currently b&m schools are dying..we need to seriously address the issues that make students drop in record numbers. Students will go to a school where they feel valued and where they are learning interesting things, in an interesting way.
Lobbyists and teachers unions are actually hobbling the ability for our kids to learn by insisting we put our children in 90 year old buildings to learn. These days are quiclky going..adapt or die Oregon.
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How do you address the social retartation Buddy is clearly displaynig in his responses? Every home schooled child I have ever met - including family members have struggled with the social aspects of life. How do online schools plan to deal with those issues?
Also, as a hiring manager I worry about students allowed to start their day at 10-11. I am also not a morning person and my personal lax attention to being on time has cost me employment twice, and now I am also careful when hiring candidates regarding punctuality. How can online schools help develop the real world rythyms these kids will NEED?
How about we change taxing structure for education? How about people WITH kids (I am a parent) pays MORE rather than less than those without kids? Then those parents can put their kids where ever they want.
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Hey Mr. Hiring Manager the word's are, Retardation and Displaying
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:-) Why yes they are! That's what I get for my comments on others! Karma.
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I didn't get that, what I heard was a "teenager" reacting to his environment, also sleeping late, that sounds like a teenager to me as well :D.
For me I work in a company that has buisness sites in every continent on the planet and I interact with people in every time zone, So...for me my day isn't 8-5. I would like to think that when buddy applies to college or a trade school, his "grades" and "numbers" will be honored and I suppose he has to take the same entrance tests(SAT). What he may be lacking (but I think this can be over come as well) is the extra curricular areas, community service, what sports/athletics or music/arts is he involved in, what areas are helping him to "build character". Some times these are the differentiators for selection.
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I guess if you are a hiring manager at a fast food joint .. yes 10-11am would be late. Please get over yourself.
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are you saying ALL jobs start early? Or that homeschools can't get along in "the world"?
wow, not there is some bias.
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No, it's a tech company (but there is nothing wrong with fast food employment – in a state with over 10% unemployment right now I think a job is a good thing). Which is ironic, don't you think? We have S/W engineers that work from home, so I understand that side of the argument. But bottom line is, even my developers that do work from home need to be on line and working by a specific time. Certainly those here in the office are expected to work normal or near normal hours. However, in other professions being on time or early was even more important. When I was in emergency medicine everyone shows up for shifts early, being late was not tolerated. In all of these occupations, social skills learned by interacting with others outside family members are vital.
How do these virtual schools plan to deal with that? It is a valid question, and not at all about me, I don't need to get over myself, I am assessing what I heard from one child in a virtual school. This doesn't mean it is reflective of all children in online education, or that my assessment of Buddy is completely accurate. It is what I heard in his responses. He had a difficult time articulating his ideas, communicating with Emily, struggled to grasp the question she asked him (she rephrased it for him, meaning she also thought he wasn't getting her question), and yes, he does sound like a teenager, but certainly wasn't socially strong.
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echolynch - you're admitting that you were fired TWICE for being "personally lax" about being on time for work and someone is paying you to hire others? Are you at work NOW?
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Mmbm1970,
I think my experience has made me more aware of the expectation placed on the work force. Obviously if you or someone in your family were having a medical emergency, you would want me to show up on time to work so we can be there, both when I was in the ER and when I was an EMT working in ambulances. So in that role long shifts and getting in early and leaving late was the norm. However, when I moved from that to more of an office job, I didn’t treat punctuality as imperative. I was not fired, but I did quit and find another job because the start time of one position. As with anyone in life, we all make mistakes. I decided I would find a position that had a start time I could reliably meet, and did. My point in this is more that at some point Buddy will get a job, after college whenever, and he will be expected to report at some specified time, in most cases. I am speaking from experience; I didn’t think making it to high school on time was important, as long as I got my work done. This made it much more difficult in the long run to prepare myself for the working world. As youths everything one does and doesn’t do can impact the type of adult one becomes, even unknowingly sometimes. I hear that same kind of cavalier attitude I had in Buddy and I think there may be impact later in his life, and there may not be. We are all individuals, and one thing virtual or online learning at ANY level allows is more individualized learning.
BTW – I completed several on line courses in college and enjoyed them very much. I am not against virtual learning, I am concerned with the overall shaping of youth and how the current flood of virtual schools plan to address the areas they are deficient. I also want to know how traditional schools plan to address their deficiencies.
There are clearly some passionate beliefs on this subject, as Dave pointed out. I am interested, as a parent, but I hold no position other that education of children is extremely important and is certainly not limited to only what is commonly referred to as “book learning” but rather includes the whole child – emotional, social, mental and physical development. Don’t all parents want a healthy, happy, well educated child that can interact with others? If yes, how can we help provide that for ALL our kids?
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Participating in a radio show or giving a speech to a sizeable crowd or participating in any activity where the spotlight is on you can be intimidating, especially when you're not used to it. My wife (not home- or virtual-schooled) called in to the show this morning. Her next call was to me to talk about how nervous she was, and that the thoughts didn't come out the way she had wanted.
I think we can give Buddy or anyone else some slack on how they deal with this sort of forum, with people they don't know, "on the air" for the world to hear.
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Preston,
That’s a good point. My high school job was on the radio, so I have a jaded perception and no fear of public speaking, on the air or otherwise. As I said above, I never said my assessment was correct; it was just my opinion after hearing him on the radio. It took courage for him to come on the show at the very least. It is also possible I am holding him to a higher standard because yesterday’s guest was so good at not answering the question on purpose.
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I think online and charter schools are important. I live in a rural area in oregon and many of the teachers were my parents teachers, my teachers and are now my kids teachers. While there experiance is great many of them are now just working because the school can not recrute a new teacher.
Also some of theses teachers are just going threw the motions.
Again I think people im urban areas are forgetting that if you or your child has a teacher you have some kind of a problem you can request a different teacher or school. we can not there is usually one teacher for each subject.
Online and charter school are our only alternative.
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It's a temptation, even as a public school teacher, to do what is necessary to help my child avoid the social pressures, the bullying, the overcrowding, the one-size-fits-all approach that "No Child Left Behind" has left us with. It's difficult to hear my sixth grader complain that his teacher is frustrated to the point of loud outbursts, that he has no friends, that the work given to him is repetative and boring, and that he is studying what he did in fifth grade for the second time.
You bet that I am tempted to find an alternative, but then I know better. I know that my child has a point-of-view that is valid, but his reporting of events is reflective of how his day went, who he talked to, whether he felt positive or negative. Frankly, his perspective changes depending on how much sleep he had the night before. I also know that I don't want my child to think that an education is an "instant grat" thing or that it is about subjects in isolation.
My child's education is about the people he encounters as much as the tests he can pass. I don't want him to think that his education is just something like a job that he tolerates during the day so he can go do something fun or that his education is isolated to the subject label at the top of the page in front of him.
I admit that there are many things that I would change, but letting my child think that education is just a series of tests on a computer screen is not a change I can embrace.
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Yes! Very well said! While I am in college my younger brother is only 7 and in 1st grade. He quite often complains of bad days, but other days when I know he's had a good night's sleep etc, he doesn't want to leave, and he looks forward to the day tomorrow. Because he lives out in a rural area where neighbors are about 1/2 mile to more apart it's very important for him to be able to experience the social side of school as well. I know the side of being picked on, I was a social awkward in middle & high school (Probably still am :P) but I still think I got more out of school by going in than I would have online.
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why does it have to be such a stark either-or? If a student studies mornings online and completes a curriculum, then afternoons are free for a wide variety of activities, including in depth training in different sports or hobbies, which can be with many other students. I do not think that online students or home schoolers are "missing" much, noting the forst graph of your post pointing out the hell-hole aspect of public schools.
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There are down sides, sure some students can be mean and pick on or make fun of other students. But that's the way it's been done for years and years. People have found a way to get through it. It happens when people leave school even. It happens with college students, it even happens with in offices or in corporations. There will always be at least one person who is going to pick on some one.
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I really don't like how they are providing so many expensive things to these online students, one individual student, when the schools with hundreds of students could benefit so many more students with that same money. My high school (Philomath Oregon) is cutting classes and raising class sizes ridiculously! Linn-Benton Community College is cutting classes even! Why are we putting the money into one student? I think we should put the money into the greater good.
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I agree. Giving one student a new computer and printer is not an efficient way of using tax dollars.
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Why not put that computer to use at the public school where many students will get use out of it? A lot of the classes were too big to be able to use the computers as a whole during a study project. Students would then have to sit out.
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That is socialism!!!It doesn't work!!!
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I'm not sure what you mean, what part of giving a new computer to a school to benefit more students is socialism?
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Online schools support thousands of students, not just one. Additionally, they cost quite a bit less than brick and mortar schools, so the money is actually going farther to support more students, rather than less.
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Online charter schools are funded much less than traditional brick and mortar schools. Brick and mortar schools could use their money to provide computers for students. When was the last time a district directly shared their budget with state legislators who then went over it with a fine-toothed comb?
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One more thought--putting money toward the "greater good" (I would argue that we are putting it toward the greater good with funding online charter schools; however the way this term is used here implies putting it into brick and mortar schools) means more of the same . . . teaching to the middle and leaving all kinds of kids out.
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What about the kids who just won't do well with online classes? It's a sure fact that online classes just do not work for some people. I for example struggle in online classes that I would otherwise do just fine in person, where as my own mother is doing wonderful in her online college classes.
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The issue here is HOW are the funds used. Virtual education has a much lower overhead cost than other schools (buildings, buses, school lunches, sports, etc.). That's how ORCA and other virtual schools are able to provide materials, computers, etc. free of charge. Please note that this doesn't mean the students get to keep the materials afterwards; they must return computers, textbooks, etc. at the end of the school year.
Just wanted to clarify here.
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Actually, the computers are okay in quality, nothing stellar. As an online teacher, I use the same computer that my students do.
Look at the heating, electricity and overall maintenance costs of a traditional school. Busing, hiring custodians and teachers (with their nice retirement packages), replanting the football field and buying all of those weights and sports equipment for the gym, etcetera, etcetera..that's expensive stuff.
Give a kid a cheap laptop, that gets them online and lets them do their school work. Retirement packages are killing our states. It takes MUCH less money to have a student learn online than it does to learn in a brick and mortar.
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I have yet to hear someone suggest that we should be closing down B&M schools in favor of virtual online education. Some students do well in traditional settings, others thrive working online. Currently the online method costs the state less money, and often achieves better results.
Students (and parents) should be able to choose what education option works best for them.
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DanLoder, while the online schools may cost less because they don't require the heating, food, sports etc that the B&M does, the B&M schools should still exist for those that DO learn best in that setting and therefore the heating, food, sports etc will still need to be funded. I'm not saying don't do online, I'm just saying that just because online is cheaper for 1 student doesn't mean it lessens the cost of all schooling.
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Actual, reliable cost comparisons for online vs. B&M are tough to find. The anti-virtual crowd claims that online schooling costs WAY less than traditional school because they don't have to pay for gymnasiums, utilities, athletics, busing, (and many other non-traditional-education-related expenses). However the online side does have to invest more in computer and other hardware, curriculum development (tailored to a virtual world), student tracking, website development, etc.
I suppose this is something proponents of HB3660 are looking for, a "peek inside" how virtual online charters operate. Although the same scrutiny could and should go into operating expenses for traditional schools as well.
The big difference here is that charters are not typically subject to the same administrative regulation as traditional schools. Shouldn't it be the RESULTS that matter? If the Legislature decides (as they already have) that they are willing to pay $x per student for education, then so long as the students are learning and achieving does it matter how much of that $x went to pay for lights vs. books?
Personally I think the State should continue to investigate how the traditional school students are funded and adjust their funding rate accordingly. Then if charters are willing to provide an education opportunity for the same cost, AND SHOW ACHIEVEMENT comparable to or better than the traditional schools, then everybody wins and we should all be happy.
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My son has been in ORCA now for 3 years and I often hear " what about socialization". My response, children go to school to learn and socialization takes place in the home. However, in todays society we have given up on "family time" for the all mighty dollar. So I guess if you consider hours spent in school as socialization ( so you can make money to go on fancy trips and have the big cars) and TV time at home as learning well than a B&M school is for you. Many who argue over socialization forget that in a B&M school socialization for many is bulling and taunting from others on the playground. I would prefer my son go to college and not end up working at a low paying job because he was being "socialized" as a youngster.
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Do you truly believe that outside of school your children as young adults, in college, etc will never run into bullies, others that taunt, and generally bad behavior? Dealing with others, including the jerks is one of the social skills learned in an interactive environment. At some point, all parents will die leaving their children and being able to socially interact with others outside of the family will be important. I completely agree that family time is also extremely important in all phases of child development, but do not believe it is possible for a family to provide a complete social education.
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In the working environment bullying is called harassment or creating a hostile work environment with a very low threshold of tolerance... in school it's called bullying and tolerated at a much higher level... given a choice my son will either be online or in a private school.
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If there are options to mitigate bullying, taunting, or any other socially-unacceptable behavior, why not take that option? We don't live in a society (yet) that requires everyone to live with the poor social behavior of others ... there are ways to deal with problems and that is what we all need to learn.
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I am a teacher at Oregon Connections Academy and am consistently impressed with the leaps of acheivement that students make once they enroll here. I will put my points in favor of online schools below, and my reasons against restricting this vital option for students:
- Gifted students have the option to progress at their own pace in virtual schools, sometimes several grade levels at a time with many enrichment opportunities, where-as they don’t in regular schools.
- Struggling students have the same access to a solid curriculum with high expectations, but can go at their own rate.
- Many students do not function in the regular environment (e.g. students with ADHD, emotional problems such as anxiety or emotional disturbance, health problems such as diabetes, seizures, cancer, or food allergies, etc) and need a virtual environment in order to work on their own time and obtain the same, or better education as their peers
- Students who live in rural areas either don’t have transportation to their local school, or if they do the environmental consequence of getting them there is extreme. The environmental toll of paper copies necessary at a brick and mortar school is also a factor.
- It costs less for students to obtain their education in a virtual setting. Costs of paper, books, building maintence, bussing, etc is not necessary in a virtual environment. Also, school districts receive money for students going to virtual schools.
- Many parents are not pleased with the education their children receive at their resident school, for whatever reason. Virtual schools offer a very rigorous, complete curriculum that is much more in-depth and advanced than the majority of brick and mortar schools.
- Freedom of choice is an American virtue. If we decline parents the right of choosing what type of public school to send their child to, we are defying a long fought for American value/tradition.
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And two more:
- There are often a great deal more elective choices for students in virtual schools than students in brick and mortar schools. For instance, students in Connections Academy have the option to choose Cantonese, French, Spanish, Sign Language, Driver’s Ed, Digital Photography, several types of technology, music, and art classes, along with many others, while many brick and mortar schools only offer the basics, if anything at all.
- Students in virtual schools are given much more in-depth and complete curriculum than students in brick and mortar schools. Instead of students being forced to progress at the average rate of the class, they are able to go at their own rate and given much more flexibility in the remedial help and/or enrichment opportunities they need. Students are educated based on their individual needs, rather than the average needs of the group.
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I work for Oregon State University building online learning systems for public K-12 teachers under the Oregon Virtual School District banner.
One important point that seems to be missed in this discussion is that "online learning" and "brick and mortar" aren't mutually exclusive. There seems to be a common, but erroneous, assumption that you either attend a virtual school from your home computer or go to a physical school building. It's not necessarily an either/or situation. There are tens of thousands of public school students around the state who are using online learning tools as an enhancement to their existing face-to-face classroom work. This hybrid or blended model allows the teachers and students to take advantage of the benefits of both in-person and virtual online instruction.
Note there are approximately 500,000 K-12 students in Oregon. This whole controversy relates to only 1% of the students in the state. I think the debate and discussion is good, but let's not get lost in the weeds. There are many more students and teachers around the state who are teaching and learning online than there are enrolled in the virtual charter schools being discussed here.
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gchaix - well put. The focus should be in improving schools for ALL students and to address differentiated learning styles - whether it's online, hands on, trade, parochial, private, "traditional" classrooms, whatever!
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I agree with this. The focus is quality of education. If student needs are being met, it doesn't matter where they are met. For some students, ORCA and other virtual schooling is helping them succeed. For others, the virtual environment would not work. We need to allow choices for success.
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gchaix,
This is one of the better ideas in this topic. How can the process be modified to blend various learning/teaching styles and still offer economies of scale and address the whole child? How can we as parents help improve "traditional" schools to embrace some of the concepts parents of the virtual schools believe are helpful and working?
Someone else posted above why does it need to be and either or? Does it?
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echolynch,
You asked how do we encourage traditional schools to learn from virtual schools - welcome to my world. :-) 100% of my job at OSU is dedicated to helping Oregon public school teachers use online tools to enhance their teaching and students' learning.
Change in our traditional schools is a long, slow process. Schools are hierarchical organizations steeped in tradition - "it worked for me 20 years ago, it'll work for kids today". The key, I believe, is finding a few enthusiastic "early-adopter" teachers in a school or district willing to try something new. Help them with training and resources like server space, software, and content. When they start seeing successes, word spreads. Their students start asking other teachers, "Why aren't you doing (whatever) like Ms. Jones?" Or administrators notice that students in Mr. Smith's class are consistently scoring better. Teachers talk to each other - "Hey, that's cool. Your students are all excited about this lesson. How did you do that?"
We're starting to see some momentum. The early-adopters have been doing it long enough now that results are starting to become more apparent and word is getting out to other teachers in the building.
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Either/or would not benefit students in general. I agree we need to offer both, and that both do benefit different learning styles etc. Like I posted lower: I'd like to see some sort of 1/2 and 1/2 system to slowly introduce students to the online system if they choose w/their family to do so. That way they don't have to plunge right into it and can decide out of both which one is best.
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It seems reasonable to expect that on-line school course offerings will expand and that the nuances of the technology will get better as it is used more.
Students will migrate to the highest quality offerings if the field is allowed to develop. The Evergreen School District in Vancouver has a developed on-line high school curriculum that is first rate and getting better. There does not seem to be any significant gap in quality between in-class and online.
The online alternative for accredited learning should be vigorously encouraged, given the tremendous economic efficiencies of using on-line courses and the convenience available for students of all ages. From universities on down, this is a great additional way to teach and learn.
Within a few years there will be national standards for online K-12 curriculum and superior online resources for everyone. I believe that this will lead a huge transformation in the way K-12 is delivered.
Several years ago my son used an online calculus course to fulfill high school math requirements. It was actually better for him than in-class instruction.
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What about students who just don't learn well online? A lot of them may not realize it's the online setting that is making it harder for them to learn, and blame it on them selves. I know I personally did this with some online schooling until I really was able to step back and look at it. How do you expect a K-5 student to be able to do this? I don't even think a lot of middle school kids would be able to look at it objectively. And what do you say also to the idea of all the money being spent on 1 student instead of benefiting many more by being spent on a school that has too few computers or too few teachers?
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Online education is a CHOICE - and should remain one for those who feel it is a successful alternative. There are pros and cons to every argument; and these have been discussed at great length here. But the bottom line is CHOICE. Why remove or limit this resource when so many can benefit from it?
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I agree the choice should be there. My concern is people abusing it or not knowing how to use it. I think maybe it might be beneficial for students first starting in it to perhaps go 1/2 and 1/2 to start with until they know for sure that the online thing is for them, then if it's not they can easily go back to what ever it was they were doing before, I think that would be a nice compromise, to offer both but require some sort of introductry system so people can get a taste of it with out having to plunge straight into it.
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The entire conversation is about MONEY not learning
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ORCA has one of the highest percentage of highly qualified, experience teachers in the state of Oregon.
On the State Report Card we were ranked as an Exceptional school.
We currently meet the requirements for Oregon's 2012 diploma requirements.
Many of my students, who are 12th graders, are applying for Ivy League colleges.
As I've stated to a number of college representatives, our school provides a unique environment that I feel highly qualifies the student for college, because of the requirements of time management, self motivation, and the demands of our high school curriculum.
We offer an opportunity for our students to complete every advanced placement class.
Overall, the 3 years I've spent as a teacher in ORCA have been the best of my 6 years as a professional educator. I'm thrilled to be part of this amazing school.
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HOORAY ALL ORCA TEACHERS!
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The flexibility that online schools allow, enables students to pursue other interests or obligations, without "missing" a school day. The lessons are accessible wherever there is an internet connection. I have heard of many students that have other obligations; athletes, FFA, jobs, and/or even teen parents. Their education is not compromised.
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I do see how it can benefit a group like teen parents (Sadly a growing number), however the athletes, and students with jobs etc, have all gotten along before. I worked at McDonalds after school and on weekends for 2 years along with being on the dance team in high school and it had zero negative affect. Infact I think it motivated me more. I didn't want to miss out on any dance team events so I tried harder to keep my grades up to not be academically disqualified, and I of course didn't want to work at McDonald's forever so I worked harder knowing I'd have an easier time finding a better job with the more education I get.
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So, just because 'they have all gotten along before', that's it? Opening alternatives to them is not an option just because of the fact that past people, like you, have succeeded?? What about progress, improvement, and reaching EVERY CHILD? Online education is an alternative that works in tandem with B&M schools to help those that would not otherwise succeed. Online education may not be the preference for everyone, but no one can deny that we are helping our students succeed everyday; students that otherwise might have been one 'left behind'.
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I'm not saying we should have the option of online schools. But I think it needs to be limited. Because like you said not every one will do well in xyz setting. Some students need the B&M thing some need online and others need different things still. I'm just worried that some families will abuse it and not use it correctly or not be prepared to use it and it will then hurt the students rather than aid them. I'd just like to see some sort of system for assuring that the students who do enter into the online schooling are infact doing well, and are infact not being hindered in any way. It'd be nice if we could do that better in any form of schooling, B&M included.
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TANZEN, you're describing an "Personalized Education Plan" where specific curricula and methods and ongoing feedback and courses flexibility all combine to offer the perfect plan for each student.
I would submit that the online virtual public charter schools operating in Oregon get much closer to this ideal than traditional schools. Hopefully ALL education platforms will get there!
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Both sides of this debate actually agree on one thing: the public schools are not serving the needs of some students and online learning can help.
The conflict is really that parents are concerned about their own kids, now, while administrators and legislators are concerned about (and required to) redesign the system to ensure quality, equity, and legal use of public funds for all Oregon students who can benefit from online learning.
Though both sides agree, their priorities lead both camps in different directions, temporarily. They need to come together on a short-term and long-term plan that addresses each of their needs.
Denise Herrenbruck, Portland resident and public school parent, Online College Instructor, UCLA and USD Teacher License Programs.
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Good point, thank you! We do need to come up with some way to combine all the good of both online and in person to help all students. It's just going to take some debating and it'll be tough. But really what we should focus on is the students.
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I think one thing that school adminstrators forget is that the funding for students is for the students, NOT for the district. The student's need is a priority.
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Why do we always assume that there is one answer? Why can't brick and mortar schools, exist along with hybrids, along with online?
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I have 2 kids in ORCA.GREAT SCHOOL!!! Follow the money,the Teacher's Union is worried because these programs work better,at a lower cost!
My children are not stuck in school all day with only the same age children,they are already out dealing in the REAL WORLD now daily!!
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AMEN! My husband's phone rings ALL DAY and he interacts with his students frequently. YAY ORCA!
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I do not necessarily see a problem with providing other options for kids not performing well in public schools, but...
The trend here seems to be: classrooms are overcrowded, schools teach to the middle, kids are out of control, so I am going to pull my kid out.
OK, fine, I understand why a parent would want to do that. But, it seems like the wrong kids are leaving the classrooms. Allowing this on a large scale would essentially turn public schools into repositories for kids no one cares about and eventually cause their collapse.
Instead of allowing kids to leave public schools because they are having a hard time in an overcrowded, rowdy Algebra classroom, why not bring focus back to the validity of vocational education and provide that as an alternative for kids that have no interest in college?
It just seems like we are trying to force all of our children into college and view vocational education as insulting these days.
This is not the whole problem and not a whole solution, but it just seems that we have given up on public schools and are starting trends in the wrong direction.
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Online schools are not the right choice for every student, and they never will be. I don't agree that supporting the option for students to enroll in an online school is giving up on brick and mortar schools. I do agree that vocational education is critical for many students. Online schools actually make it easier for students to access this due to their flexibility. For example, I have one student who volunteers as an EMT during the daytime, and does her online schoolwork in the evenings. Additionally, I think trade schools are a fantastic option for many students, both for those who struggle academically and those who don't.
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shelly,
The "giving up" comment is more or less responding to the drum beat in here that public schools have "failed", and I agree that online schools are not best for everyone...hence my concern.
My perception of the whole online school system for K-12 is that it is more of a response to parents that want to remove their children from classrooms for whatever reason than a coherent educational strategy. I see some value (a lot of value in specific cases), but I also see, for instance, trade schools as a more efficient way to alleviate many of the problems in public schools.
I mean, an online school can be great for students X, Y, and Z, but they leave students A, B, and C in limbo. Whereas, moving students A, B, and C to a non-college track is a win for all six students.
You seem to agree with a lot of that, so I am really just clarifying my stance for other readers.
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I don't have the stats at hand, but I am quite sure the online virtual students aren't comprised of only the "best students" who fled traditional public school. In our family we have one student who excels across the board, another who excels in a few subjects, another I would consider "average" compared to his peers, and a fourth who has definite special learning disabilities.
But let's say for this discussion that your hypothesis is correct, and the "achievement level" of students in public school drops as the "gifted students" look for another option. Wouldn't a lower student:teacher ratio allow teachers to focus more on those in class?
Remember we're currently talking about only 1% of the students in Oregon, but would it be THAT different if 2% or even 3% found an alternative that worked better for them?
To all of these arguments there are "positive" and "negative" spins. Too bad each side thinks theirs is the ONLY right answer.
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Preston,
Really, what I'm getting at is that the students leaving the classroom are not necessarily gifted, they just have parents that care and have time, and that is the biggest reason they should stay in the classroom. Parents that care generally benefit all students. But, the more this drumbeat of "schools have failed" persists (deserved or not) and the more popular alternatives become, the more parents are going to pull their kids.
And, there is no reason to assume that this would lower the student/teacher ratio (teachers can flee too) nor is there any reason to assume this would make things better for the students still in the brick and mortar schools.
Anyway, there are probably parents pulling their kids for the wrong reasons, these online schools are fixes for a small percentage of kids, and they leave a lot of other kids in limbo because this is not part of any comprehensive, coherent strategy.
I will scale up my example from earlier. Imagine Algebra class with 30 kids, 10 are disruptive (because they don't care, have parents that don't care, have learning disabilities, whatever), 10 just do not have parents that can dedicated the time to do online school, and the other 10 have parents than can put them in an online course.
What's better: pulling the 10 with caring parents that can dedicate time to online school, or finding alternatives for the 10 with issues and keeping the caring parents with time in the system?
We just seem to be railroading kids through school on a single track toward college and view other options as options for stupid kids. Pulling kids out and creating a separate online education system does not fix that problem.
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slackr,
If I understand correctly you would prefer the alternative that removes the 10 unruly kids from class ("finding alternatives"). Where would you have them go? To another overcrowded classroom? How does that help the kids already in that class? Or do you hire another teacher just for those kids? If schools weren't constrained by their current budget crisis then that might work fine. If your scenario were a reality then there wouldn't be nearly as many families looking for non-traditional options.
So do we increase funding to traditional schools and attempt to hire more teachers? Maybe. Another option exists to spend no additional funds yet provide a better environment option for some students.
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Question for those out there supporting the ORCA:
Do you feel that the public schooling should be eliminated and online schooling should take over? Thanks for any responses, it's good to get every one's views.
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Why does it have to be either/or? Why not provide a range of choices - online, face to face, blended - to students and teachers so they can build an individualized learning plan that fits the student's specific learning style and needs? In this case you can have your cake and eat it too.
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To clarify, are you suggesting that there be a mix of online and in person for students? As in one student can wake up go to school for a class or two then head home and do some online learning?
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Absolutely not! I'm a firm believer in brick and mortar/traditional education. Our school model does NOT work for every student, just like the traditional model does NOT work for every student. I am a firm believer that a variety of schooling models should be available for students.
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A blended model would be ideal for many students. Think of your teachers that bored you to tears and made you want to drop out. The Online curriculum I have taught with is created by teachers and is of a high quality..who would want to deny students the opportunity to access this, when the current model (brick and mortar) only allows for students to learn according to the mood of the teacher and their ability to control large groups in a small space.
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Thank you both for your responses. I agree completely that no one thing will fit all students. I think there should be both available to students & families.
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I definitely don't think brick and mortar schools should be eliminated! Online schooling is not the best choice for every student. It should most certainly be an option, however, because in many cases it truly is the best choice for some. Students who have difficulty sitting still for six hours, students who need to learn at their own pace, students who need greater flexibility, etc all should have the option available to them to learn in the way that fits them best.
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No, we need more options, not fewer. And the best schools are smaller schools. There are lots of different kinds of learners. More choice is what we need.
Even teachers would vastly appreciate more varied work environments.
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Not at all!! B&M schooling is a great platform for a lot of students; I used to teach in B&M schools in the Portland area and have even taught overseas and have found it very enjoyable and rewarding. However, online schooling is also a great option for students that are not succeeding in the traditional setting.
Point of clarification: ORCA IS a public school.
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My greatest concern is not the requirements or classes but the youth and their development. I am worried that some parents might turn to this as an alternative but not realize how much responsibility is passed to the parent. It takes a great deal of parental monitoring...many parents don't have the time to support their youth the way they might ideally wish to. Family life is very busy...if you have a stay at home parent, then great, but not many families have that luxury.
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That's a concern of mine too. So many families don't have a parent home all day who can help with the online learning process. I think it's vital that if a student is taking the online classes, that no matter their age k-12, they have a parent home to help with learning and to make sure students (because it is a possiblity) aren't cheating in one way or another.
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There is an assumption made here that being in school is better than being at home, whether a student is learning or not. There is an additional assumption that each and every student is supervised in a brick and mortar school. To that end, I would encourage you to visit your local high school and ask how they do this.
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As an online high school teacher, I think that parental monitoring is key. Too many parents think that a computer can watch their kid all day and many parents don't bother to communicate with teachers..thinking that we can somehow monitor their kid via the internet. Kids can still not answer the phone and still not check their email..two main ways that online teachers connect with their students.
Online learning is ideal for highly motivated students. Look very carefully at the learning goals of your child and don't just 'dump' them into online courses without heavy parental monitoring; it still 'takes a village' and parents are an integral part of that.
If you want to have your child learn online, please be a parent who is willing to spend 20-30 minutes per day to verify that your child completed their tasks, etc. Make it a fun interaction and you may enjoy spending the time with your child.
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Thanks DanLoder for that. I am concerned with online classes mostly that some parents will use it as an out when they really aren't prepared for it or their children aren't prepared for it. I think it takes a certain learning type to be able to succeed in online classes.
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Speaking from personal experience, it is NOT a "luxury." :+)
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It would be hard to argue that cheating / "extra collaboration" doesn't happen in traditional settings. Our online school consistently reminds coaches of their role and responsibility to prevent dishonesty, but there are of course bad coaches and/or inventive students who will still cheat if they really want to. Obviously that only hurts the student and the system overall, and that's no different in traditional, online, private or college courses.
FYI students enrolled in virtual education are required to pass their state tests in a tightly-controlled environment with trained adjudicators.
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In desgining a system for all students we need to be mindful that online learning is not primarily an alternate method of delivery. It is an important element of all learning for our electronic age.
The electronic revolution has caused a profound change in how we work, communicate and learn, and this has implications for our education system.
We don't need separate online schools, we need to integrate online learning into all instruction.
Students need to learn how to:
- research, evaluate, organize, store and share online resources
- use the internet safely
- comply with copyright and creative commons licenses
- read, write and publish in a variety of online formats
- consume and produce communication in a variety of media
- create knowledge products with others via online tools
- form and sustain networks for education and business
- work productively with diverse perspectives and cultures
Denise Herrenbruck, Portland resident and public school parent, Online College Instructor, UCLA and USD Teacher License Programs.
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I teach online in Oregon and have taught in Portland Public High Schools. I am certified in 3 states and teach online to those kids (high school). I have taught as a public school teacher for eight years (World Languages).
Portland teachers voted to strike the first year I taught, so my employment was directly affected by local issues and monies. As an online teacher, the Education Associations can support their members stay employed by allowing certified teachers to work 'without borders'. The World language curriculum I teach with incorporates audio and video and games and allows for the student to practice over and over, in the comfort of their homes, away from peer ridicule.
Online learning is the future! Stop holding on to the dinosaur model of schooling and look closely at the failure rate of 'Brick and mortars', especially here in Portland. If teachers let go of their fear of employment, they will see that being able to teach students from the entire state and beyond will actually benefit them, and the students.
States will save hundreds of millions of dollars by incorporating online learning and Oregon won't have to use 40% of its budget just to keep our bloated, dinosaur schools afloat.
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Oregon is incorporating online learning into its existing public schools. It's happening on many levels:
- The Oregon Department of Education funds the Oregon Virtual School District to provide any public school teacher in Oregon with free tools, content, and training to incorporate online learning into their classes. Any public school teacher in Oregon can in 5 minutes have a web site pre-loaded with course content that maps to Oregon standards.
- Dennis from HDESD spoke about all the great work the ESDs are doing - both today and for the past 10-15 years. Take a look at all the courses being offered through the various ESD programs. I think you'll be surprised at how much is being done.
- Schools, districts, and even individual teachers all over the state are doing it on their own. In Ashland, Astoria, Enterprise, Salem, Redmond, Ontario - there are teachers incorporating online learning into their classes right now.
"Virtual schools" are not a one-size-fits-all panacea. Online education is not just a student at home accessing a distance learning course on virtual school web site. It's also kids in their brick and mortar school watching a video on TeacherTube or a child submitting their homework electronically from their home computer after spending the day in a traditional classroom. It's a broad spectrum - something I see as a very good thing as it provides many different options for students and teachers to find the best way to maximize each student's learning.
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I am a believer that everyone needs multiple ways to fully understand a concept.
I think the online learning environment can be effective in many ways, at the same time I think there is a huge loss in the opportunity for students to gain the "soft skills" needed to succeed in the "post-secondary world" whether it be work or post-secondary education that they are pursuing.
There is a new wave of the importance of transition in our education system, and only going to school online may impede a young adult's ability to adapt to the world of adult hood.
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I agree and I think a blend would benefit the whole much better than just either or.
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I think a personalized plan, tailored to each student's requirements and abilities, is the best plan. For some that's traditional. For some that's virtual. For some that's blended. We can't put everyone into this-or-that box.
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Our son was educated on line after the local school district completely failed him. All I can say is it was a great learning experience academically. Also it made our day so much more relaxed he was able to do lots more extra curricular activities he never would have had the energy to do if he was in a 'regular high school'. Akikdo, ball room dancing, drum lesson, table top gaming, and field trips exploring the city.
He also did a lot with home schoolers including such things as making up a survey to evaluate awareness of policy issues and went around, (during mid morning-early afternoon), interviewing and surveying the adults that would talk with them.
Our whole k-12 system was developed to support US workers movement away from the farm to needing to be in a factory. The industrialization of the 1900's no longer is a good model to prepare young people for the world.
The real problem is political. The teachers union does not support students learning if it doesn't make their system and teachers more money. All one can do is quit sacrificing their children's future and remove themselves from the system it is impossible to change it.
We need to teach reading, writing and math and then let kids develop along their own lines and abilities.
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Last week at my local high school, a Holocaust survivor, who traveled to schools across the US, spoke at an assembly. At this small, well funded school, he stopped his discussion and told the kids this was the rudest school he’d ever been to. The kids talked and texted during his speech, asked rude questions and even laughed.
As a prior brick and mortar high school teacher, this sort of thing happens often. Most of these kids don’t get caught or face any discipline action- many will actually be supported by their peers. Most of the parents won't even hear about it. Too often, my role as a high school teacher wasn’t instructional.
Teachers are charged with 30-40 kids per classroom, per trimester with 4-6 classes per day-- that's a potential max of 360-720 kids per year. Schools need parent's support, academically and disciplinary, and parents want to help. However, there’s really no support system and teachers simply don’t have time for calls home… except the extreme discipline case.
What about students that need more 1-1 time or that deserve more individual attention in their 6 hour day? Parents volunteer all the time but rather than getting a chance to support their student and give them individual attention, they’re sent to the copy room or to make posters in the hallway.
I currently teach online and one great part about my job is supporting parents. I have tremendous respect for the role that our parents play in their children’s daily lives and education. Parents have almost instant contact M-F with their student’s teacher by phone and email and access to updated grade-books, daily planner/ homework assignment list and attendance.
Working with an online school is a big responsibility for parents but should remain an option for parents willing to accept it. I’m an online educator and I’m here to educate children in math and support my families. Please support the parent’s right to choose.
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Our daughter is now a 4th grader and in her second year as a student at Oregon Connections Academy and doing very well. The curriculum is challenging, fun and interesting. It is a myth to think that she spends all day in front of the computer, our days involve a whole lot more. She has made more friends which she wasn't lacking before. We have attended school sponsored field trips and other events, we maintain a regular schedule but still enjoy the flexibility of that schedule when necessary. She is very active in other activities with her peers in things like Girl Scouts, 4H, church youth group, dance classes and whatever else we can fit in. Online learning is not for everyone, but then neither is the traditional brick and mortar school system, especially in light of the problems they face. We don't have anything against those who choose that option for educating their kids, but what we do have a problem with is others, for their own benefit trying to take options in education away from us. No one is qualified to tell me what is best for my child...and in our case the local school district just isn't good enough.
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7 million people currently play World of Warcraft, an online "roll-playing" fantasy game. Millions more use internet "social networking" as a meaningful-if-virtual aspect of their lives. Games such as Counter-Strike create 1st person persona's in real-time for millions more people.
It's just a matter of time before you can "Log-in" and walk your online "Avatar" to some eClassroom for an interesting, insightful, and interactive eEducational experience which will, for all intensive purposes, be no different, either in assessment or experience, than today's "real-world" classrooms with all their "inter-personal" charms.
I may never personally have opportunity to attend a lecture at Harvard, but I'll bet my student's ADM (state $ for seat-time) that someday soon I will be able to attend an interactive eLecture at an exactly modeled eClassroom at eHarvard from the comfort of my laptop at my neighborhood coffee shop. It's going to be AWESOME!
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I find it interesting that so many voices who are 'b&m' oriented have such strong opinions about virtuals. As a 5 year veteran virtual charter parent (ORCA) with 3 kids enrolled, I feel qualified to offer up an opinion of what virtual charter schools are and are not.
First, (from a quality provider), they are an amazing student-centered innovation in public education. The model is a parallel to the revolutionary change to every other aspect of American life, (dial phone, anyone?). Because each student has their own 'school' they can progress as quickly or as slowly as they need to - without any stigma.
They are not 'kids in front of a computer' all day. We have textbooks and workbooks AND computer. At the grade school level, we send in a monthly portfolio of hand-written schoolwork. (Older kids do submit their assignments electronically). The work is certainly an appropriate preparation for the real world.
They are also not an isolation tank. Our three kids socialize better than their b&m friends. They comfortably interact with people from all ages and walks - from smaller kids to adults. Again - a better preparation for the real world than an artificial "Lord of the Flies" environment where one social misstep can emotionally scar a kid for years.
Virtuals are also NOT for everyone. It requires committed parents. As one poster noted, we make sacrifices to be virtual schoolers. It is not easy, but it is an investment in our kids.
My question - why can we not have virtuals as an option for the parents & students to choose? I have never heard any virtual school advocate call for the closure of brick & mortar schools, why can't the opposite be true?
ORCA is very successful, rated Outstanding by the state. Why can we not guarantee that it will be available for all the years of our kids' education? Why must we be at the Capitol every year to fight the misconceptions and beg to be allowed to return to school in September? Is our 1% of Oregon's student population that much of a threat to the status quo? This issue has used up so many resources, so much time. What is the REAL issue?
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Virtual schools are a clear path for preparing our future workforce for the type of workflow they will experience. Additionally, colleges and universities across the world are spending hard to find marketing dollars to tout their online courses. As our children move forward through the educational process they will undoubtedly experience this type of education. Why is the state of Oregon bent on remaining behind the times?
Oregon Connections Academy students scored the highest possible rating in the state while operating under the microscope of unprecedented scrutiny. Honestly, what is the REAL issue?
Oregon Virtual School District (ORVSD), the state sanctioned virtual school, is already operating at a limited capacity. Clearly, the state finds value in virtual education.
I suspect the state, in an effort to save face, is stalling other virtual schools until the ORVSD is fully functional.
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Ofeargall,
I'm the technical lead on the ORVSD project. ODE has contracted with us here at OSU to handle the hosting and development of the ORVSD tools and content. I think there are some misconceptions here that I can address.
The Oregon Virtual School District is somewhat mis-named (we were assigned the name, we didn't choose it) - it's neither a school or a district. ORVSD is not "the state sanctioned virtual school". ORVSD doesn't employ teachers, grant credit or enroll students.
I expect the impression you received that ORVSD is "operating at limited capacity" is rooted in the fact that its services are in no way intended to be a complete virtual school. It offers a set of free tools and content for teachers. We're doing exactly what our mission directs us to do: help Oregon teachers use more technology. We're giving resources away to Oregon teachers for free so that they can enhance their existing classrooms.
The services of the ORVSD are available to any Oregon public school - including charters like ORCA, AllPrep, etc. - free of charge. For example, Estacada Web Academy (an AllPrep school) is delivering courses right now from a server hosted in the ORVSD architecture. The project is in no way intended to suppress or compete with any of the incumbent virtual schools. If anything, the project is supporting the arguments made here that traditional schools should be learning from the online schools. ORVSD is bringing the tools the virtual schools are using into the hands of traditional classroom teachers and training them how to use those tools to enhance their classes, thereby blurring the lines between"virtual" and "B&M" schools.
The state isn't "stalling" ... there aren't any nefarious motives here. The goal of the ORVSD project is to increase the use of technology in Oregon's public schools in general - nothing to do with the current debate that's bouncing back and forth between the Legislature and the Oregon School Board.
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Comments are now closed.
The requirements proposed in HB 3360 are both reasonable and necessary to monitor the expenditure of public funds and ensure the quality of education an online school's students receive. Anything less that that is an abdication of the public financial trust and exposes students to receiving a substandard education. You get our kids, you get our money, you're on the hook.