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Internships 101
I'm going to put it out there right away: we regularly have interns at Think Out Loud. They bring enthusiasm, energy, and new ideas to our team. In return, as a non-profit, we teach them how to produce a daily radio show. From the feedback I have received so far, it is a great situation all around. Even in the couple short years we've been on the air we have launched, or at least helped, the careers of many spirited young journalists.
But there's been a flurry of bad press about what interns have to do at many for-profit companies. And yet more stories about how some employers are getting people to "work for free" to help their bottom line during bad economic times.
In response, the U.S. Department of Labor is increasing enforcement of the criteria for internships at for-profit companies.
- The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;
- The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;
- The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;
- The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
- The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and
- The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.
What's your experience with internships? Have they helped your career? Were you paid or unpaid? And what difference does that make for you? Have you worked with interns? What difference did they make to your company?
Tagged as: education · employment · media
Photo credit: Somewhat Frank / Creative Commons
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This is a complicated issue. I believe that minimum wage is an important part of a fair functional economy. However, I also believe that there should be flexibility to allow people to enter new fields when they don't have prior experience and are probably not working at the same capacity as a fully trained worker doing the same job. Unpaid or stipend internships can be a great low risk way for an employer to offer individuals the opportunity to 'try out' new occupations and learn on the job.
My husband and I are organic vegetable farmers, and we started down this career path with a stipend position at a small farm. We were looking for a very specific work experience and yet we had little to offer an employer beyond our willing bodies. That first year, we definitely worked slower and sloppier than more experienced workers -- we were learning everything from scratch after all. It was nice to feel that our mistakes and slowness weren't an undue burden on our employer that year. Our second year working for the same farmer, he paid us over minimum wage, and we definitely performed at a level consistent with his higher expectations.
On our farm today, we have chosen to pay our employees minimum wage and above. It was a hard financial decision, but we wanted to avoid getting into a possibly tricky legal arena. It also definitely puts more pressure on our employees to perform at a high level quickly -- this can be both good and bad, but ultimately works for our employees and our operation.
I wish there was a legally defined middle ground that would allow multiple options for employers and employees. It's important that employees feel that they have a choice in what they earn, can afford to pursue the work they enjoy, and are free from abuse. However, it's also important for individuals to have opportunities to seek out real new work experiences. Washington State is trying out a potential new model that makes stipend farm internships legal under very tight circumstances. Perhaps Oregon can adopt something similar so that farm internships can continue to exist?
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My experience as a relatively recent college student who did few internships during college looking for work in the recession has profoundly changed the way that I look at education in America.
I attended an Ivy League college on the East Coast and graduated sum cumma laude; as you can guess, that meant I had to spend a lot of time studying. In the summers, I took classes in the difficult Asian language I was studying. Once I was out on the job market, I found that my high GPA really made no difference. It would be easy for me to get in a graduate school of my choice at this point, but unfortunately that's not what I want.
Being turned down for so many jobs--in fact, not even getting a response from most of them--made me rethink the way I did college. My school was very expensive; I now think it would have been smarter to attend a cheaper, less academically challenging state school. I could have still succeeded in my classes *and* devoted time to internships that would have given me the connections and experience to find a job more quickly.
How did I eventually find a job? I lived with my parents and interned for free at a non-profit.
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Thanks for having this discussion.
The art/design field is notorious for having unpaid interns without whom design offices could not survive. I'm in the field of architecture, and was laid off during the recession. I began teaching, and often received text messages about the latest round of layoffs at Portland design offices. Without fail, within a few weeks, these very same offices would send out emails to local design schools advertising for unpaid interns - "a great opportunity to earn school credit!" The irony is, to earn school credit, these unpaid interns would actually have to pay out of their own pocket for this "great opportunity".
Another favorite of the design world is to have a potential employee complete a design project for free - a layout, website, computer rendering - as part of the application process. If the firm decides to use the work, the applicant will be "awarded" the position.
Too many design students, young eager design professionals, and older designers who have "done their time" continue to reinforce the belief that abuse of workers- both paid and unpaid- is a fundamental rite of passage.This has always been a part of the design profession and it won't go away unless there are stricter regulations about the definition and use of an "intern".
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Hi Thomas - I am member of that design field. I did my internship back in 1998. This was a paid internship. At the time I was very excited to have the opportunity to work in the fine arts field as well as get paid for it. I think back on my experience and I would have done it for free as long as it was for a short time commitment. I eventually finished out my internship and was offered a part time job by the same company. Life was good.
I am older now and I own a small web design/development business. Before I started accepting interns, I was asked by a local school to be a student mentor. I did this for a few sessions and the kids loved the chance to see a designer doing cool art as a "real job".
I remember calling up my former internship employer and asking for his advice on whether I should start looking for interns to help grow my business. He warned me that they could be very taxing, but also very rewarding.
To this day I have had about 5 interns (usually 2 a time). None of these positions were paid. The students have always been appreciative. It might be easier for me than for others because of the industry. At the end of the day we make cool art and can often share it on the web. Interns love the gratification of knowing they saw the creative process happen first hand. Priceless!
My struggle now comes from learning where to draw the line with internship commitments. I used to share more information that I should have. My only excuse was that the business model was always very small and entrepreneurial. I wanted to show these kids that they could do it too. Now that my business model has grown, I now want to teach less and show more.
The interns will leave every 3 months or so. For that time period, I want to show them what it is honestly like to be a small business owner with client meetings, phone meetings, cool projects, outside the box think tank discussions/activities, and all the other stuff that goes into the everyday work load.
I will not pay a student to experience my world. It should be something they want and would be eager to do without compensation. I don't consider this "abuse" - I consider this opportunity.
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Internships are a sensible way for newbies to test out a profession or work environment without making a commitment to stay for a career.
I had the chance to intern as a research assistant with professors at my college. Time spent in that capacity was extremely valuable and I found my professor/supervisors to be true mentors.
I assisted in checking hundreds of background reference citations. Not the most scinitllating work, but I saw that it was necessary for the publications involved, and it allowed me to meet some of my professors' peers who wound up being good references for me.
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As a two term psychology graduate student intern, I advocate for internship paid (preferred) or unpaid. However, I propose programs held accountable to adere to a process to better match intern placement and requiring formal course or certification for supervisiors.
There are numerous definitions of supervision. Clinical supervision is an ongoing relationship with power differential aimed at developing and training future professional in various fields (e.g. psychology).
Unfortunately, few supervisors report having had formal courses on supervision, and most rely on their own experience as a supervisee" (ASPPB, 2003, p. 1). Additionally, fewer than 20% of supervisors have had formal training in supervision (Peake, Nussbaum, & Tindell, 2002). Many psychologists perform clinical supervision, with little or no formal training or experience, other than being supervised themselves at one time. Moreover, The Association of State and Provincial Psychology Boards (ASPPB) task force on supervision concluded, "Given the critical role of supervision in the protection of the public and in the training and practice of psychologists, it is surprising that organized psychology, with few exceptions, has failed to establish a requirement for graduate level training in supervision."
C.E.Watkins, Jr. (Ed.). Handbook of psychotherapy supervision. New York: Wiley.
State of Oregon http://www.oregon.gov/OBPE/APA EPs 2002.pdf
Ronnestad, M.H., & Skovholt, T.M. (1993). Supervision of beginning and advanced graduate students of counseling and psychotherapy. Journal of Counseling and Development, 71, 396-405.
American Psychological Association. (2002). Ethical principles of psychologists and code of . Retrieved from http://www.apa.org/ethics/code2002.html conduct 2002
ASPPB Supervision Guidelines Revised 2003. (2003). Final report of the ASPPB Task Force on Supervision
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I was a professional ballet dancer with several ballet companies. Ballet "apprentices" are essentially unpaid FULL-TIME-plus interns. The girls that are not living under their parents' roof anymore cannot afford to support themselves, cannot afford to eat, and do not have the time or energy to get second jobs. The people who take unpaid positions in order to get experience do it because the career they want means so much to them that they just want to get their foot in the door. It negatively impacts the rest of their financial lives. I was later offered an unpaid science internship with the State of Oregon, and because of my previous experience I turned it down. I never want to feel that used again.
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Obviously there are plenty of good stories about a successful personal path that includes an unpaid internship, but my main thought is about the class barrier that this constitutes to some fields. Although the internships are supposed to be, and generally are, educational, there are not scholarships available like for college. One has to be in a socio-economic position to go for these positions, which generally means a certain level of wealth and family support.
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No, there are not usually scholarhips for internships, but internships also have no tuition or fees. Besides, there are very few scholarships available today that cover ALL the costs of higher education (the costs being: tuition, fees, books, living expenses). And, given the exceedingly high cost of college these days, an unpaid and stipend internship can still be a more feasible endeavor for a low-income invididual. Plus, it is often more likely to naturally lead to a paying job than formal education does because the goal is usually to gain actual practical job skills.
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The success really depends on the amount of work put into the internship on both sides. While in school, I had an unpaid internship that consisted of mostly photocopying. That experience taught me to provide a real growth experience for interns and in a way that we get something out of it, too. Now, we're well known in our profession for providing outstanding internships and we get quality work out of motivated pre-professionals.
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I am on the faculty at Portland State University in the School of Business and supervise many internships each year. We see our jobs as protecting students in these situations by doing the following:
1) Carefully monitoring the activities of the internship. We do this through weekly contact with the student. I ask them repeatedly for example, "What new things are you learning?"
2) If students are not regularly exposed to learning opportunities, we pull the internship and put that internship provider on a list of organizations we won't use again. Our internship coordinator is very serious about this and manages it beautifully.
3) We require an "informational interview" as a part of the internship. We tell students very specifically that this is intended to get them in the door of the highest person in the company they'd like to get to know. We do this very intentionally to insure students get out of the mail room and into the executive suite.
These are only the pieces of quality control that are built into the infrastructure of our internship-for-credit process. Most faculty do a great deal of hands-on advising during the internship as well.
We take our roles as faculty advisors very seriously and protect students throughout the process. I think these internships are so critical for students when they graduate and are able to confidently say they have some work experience in the field to which they aspire. Sometimes they only way to get this is through unpaid internships.
A final note - international students very much appreciate internships as it is the ONLY way they are allowed to get work experience in this country while they are in school.
I'd caution against throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some internships are unethical and wrong; others are inspirational and very useful. I think the key is vigilance and proper supervision.
GREAT idea for a show!
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I did an internship for college credit for OSPIRG, the Oregon Student Public Interest Research Group. I am So very greatful for the skills that I learned, skills I could not have learned anywhere else like working with the public, writing press releases, and organizing volunteers. Through my internship I was able to speak to state senators, mayors and U.S. Congressmen. I look forward to doing more interships when I return to school to finish my degree.
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I was doing my graduate at Portland State University and have done internship at Intel for 1 year which was a paid one . I learnt the Intel culture and how work is done there and attended meetings. It was a good learning . The work I did was to respond to emails from customers who were having problems in their installations or licences. I was not very happy doing that but as I learnt the Intel culture it was good. I am no longer doing that . I am working as a Software Quality Analyst working for Intel and I think , it was a good experience for me overall. Had I not gotten paid for it , I guess , I would feel taken advantage of but I am glad it was not this way. I feel sorry for people getting unpaid internship.
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"designate an internship coordinator to be the liaison between the organization and the interns"
This is a very good suggestion since so many organizations fail to recognize the importance of orientation process - I have had to learn just about everything on my own, pay the school for the internship, spend excessive additional hours over and above agreed upon and needed hours because I never received appropriate orientation.
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I have a few suggestions for organizations:
Avoid hiring interns on an ad hoc basis. Instead designate an internship coordinator to be the liaison between the organization and the interns. The internship coordinator can then work with the interns either individually or as a team to develop clearly delineated expectations, tasks, responsibilities, and experiential learning outcomes.
Cultivate cohort solidarity among the interns so that the experiential learning can happen not only between those who run the organization and the interns, but also among the student interns themselves.
Hold weekly meetings to bring interns together. Such meetings can be both logistical and educational. For example, the internship coordinator might invite key members of the organization to present their work to the internship team. Or, perhaps this would be a good time to invite in other relevant guests to educate the interns (and organization) about a particular area of relevance to the organization’s overarching mission. This could have the added advantage of encouraging cross fertilization of social goals and efforts: for example, between those working to promote health and those endeavoring to protect the environment; social services and law enforcement; grass roots organizers and legislators.
When feasible, encourage interns to work on organization projects and their own self designed and initiated projects. Be clear with interns as to how much of their time is expected for each. For example, 60% for organization project, 40% for individual project. Schedule advising meetings or have designated office hours so that students remain engaged and focused in their work.
If student interns have accomplished something tangible for the organization during their internships, consider hosting an end-of-internship public presentation of their works, findings, conclusions, etc.
Finally, in recognition of the fact that non paid internships cater largely to economically privileged students, consider offering scholarships (or pay) to those who have no choice but to earn money in the summer months.
Again, thank you for addressing this issue on Think Out Loud.
Joyce Millen, PhD, MPH
Associate Professor of Medical Anthropology
Willamette University
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Unions have what are called apprenticeship programs, in which the beginner starts out going to the trade school along with starting out with on the job training and experience. The apprentice has a lesser pay level but does get paid for doing actual work.
Unions protect workers from exploitation by "cheap-labor Conservatives" who want free labor from unpaid "interns".
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The difference is that these trade apprenticeships usually last much longer than an internship (several years) and often lead directly into a journeyman position with the same company. Also, the final pay for journeyman union jobs is often much higher than the final pay in other industries that offer unpaid internships. Apprentices also usually do exactly the same work on the job site, unlike interns, who often do support jobs or observe and help coordinate work.
While internships and apprenticeships share some similarities, they are not equivalent.
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The problem with unpaid internships, especially the ones at the national level, is that they restrict the access of students and young professionals who do not have the financial resources to support themselves while they work at unpaid internships.
I am m a Masters Degree student at PSU; my parents and I immigrated to this country 14 years ago with little but the clothes our backs; since I entered college as a freshman many years ago, I have found that I do not have the option to work a full or even a part time internship which is unpaid. For years now, I have been restricted to looking for only paid internships in order to contribute my share to the family’s finances.
As someone who is very interested in politics and has studied political science, I have found that this means most of the internships in Washington, DC, for example, or even some internships at the state level, are not ones that I can afford to participate in simply because they are unpaid.
This is essentially a kind of economic stagnation: because I cannot afford to take unpaid internships, I have less experience than some of my more well-off friends and because I am less experienced, I am less employable.
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An unpaid internship is the first thing a person should do who is considering starting their own business in an industry they are not familar with.
Otherwise internships should be paid unless they are affiliated with a college or university and include a very specific curriculum that specifies what tasks will be done and for how long and what makes the experience worth the tuition. An internship can be a valueable mentorship opportunity, but more often employers see it either as a way to try out prospective employees at no cost or to get work done for free in return for just a little bit more liability and extra supervision.
What is the most disgusting to me is when internships or volunteering are a de facto requirement for full time employment. I have talked to park rangers who were working as unpaid volunteers solely because that is a requirement as a condition of being considered for career employment, and it puts individuals who have no means to support themselves at extreme disadvantage.
Likewise, my oldest son is applying for Post Doc positions in sub field of Physics only because he believes such positions are an expected part of the resume for positions he does want for a career. Yet, it is unfair since he has already being doing research now for six years and forgoing pay that he could have gotten in industry. Now he is being offered less pay as a Post Doc than he could have gotten in Industry with a Masters Degree. He is very tempted to leave Physics entirely for other opportunities that simply pay 30% or more than the maximum pay available as a Post Doc, since that pay is set basically set arbitrarily by national governments who pay lip service to science but then reward people for grant application work rather than science work.
If a worker isn't even worth the minimum wage with a high school education and more with a college degree, they are entering the wrong career and should take up being an electrician or plumber. The federal government itself needs to stop expecting unpaid volunteer experience for even highly competitive positions in the park service and forest service. It is a form of economic discrimination that is in most cases also racial discrimination.
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I obseved a few years ago when my daughter was a college student that the "trust fund babies" whose parents were funding their college experience were much more likely to have the ability to particpate in internship opportunities and therefore to pad their resumes to be more ready and desirable when they fledged into the working world or vying to get into graduate schools. The "poor" students who had to get real jobs and earn income during summer break could not consider an unpaid internship.
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Response to Gary:
"site visits" - it sounds really good, but in reality, it is a "drive-thru" approach to a very important process.
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The idea of "independent contractor" is currently a very bad problem also, and employers are exploiting workers with it to get out of paying workers comp, social security, FICA, and all of the rest of mandated pay for employees.
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The US dept of Labor must look into the internship placement practices of various academic programs. I believe this is the root of the problem.
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Fascinating topic. My "internships" have all been work that paid a salary. Of ten jobs I've had, six were gotten through friends and family connections. One was through civil service test, and two were through cold-call interview. Only one was minimum wage and I quickly negotiated a raise after proving myself worthy.
I was a contractor my first job after college graduation. Who I've known has been more important than what I know. I developed work skills during a time where employers paid to train their employees specifically for their needs. I suspect that many internships take advantage of the fact that this is an employers' job market.
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We need to discuss the final evaluation process that ultimately becomes the barrier to an intern voicing injustices and discrepencies experienced at his/her practicum. It's the same as in a paid position where employees have to say "yes" and "no" is not an option.
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I am curious about what peoples experience is like outside the college experience, such as an older worker deciding to change industries. It can be difficult to break into the brewing industry and many homebrewers are willing to work for free to follow their passion, but commercial brewing is a manufacturing job and much more hazardous than their pervious career as a IT engineer. There is much risk and little benift on the brewers side to having someone learn on your equipment.
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I think that kids should be taught the rules and laws about workers while they are in school so that they can make informed decisions about who they work for.
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My daughter was almost involved with a wine promotion, not-for-profit? employer that offered 1/3 paid work and 2/3 internship which averaged to less than minimum wage. As an Ivy League grad she'd been offered the position immediately after the owner had reviewed her 3 hour writing test. She was told her "pitch" was intelligently and beautifully written. I am a business owner so to me this seemed abusive and illegal. I advised her to negotiate for a minimum wage position. The offer was then retracted. This business owner had multiple interns and only a couple of paid employees. There needs to be stricter guidelines to this practice although I am not against college arrangements requiring reporting and educational goal setting.
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After hearing this show today, I am a bit offended that companies are using so much free labor pretending that it is for the benefit of the student. Even as a volunteer, there is a glut of people currently looking for experience to the point that the only thing I can do at OPB is only what I have experience in. There are some very unethical companies out there that overuse the student with little learning benefit, in return. At the age of 42, I am not looking forward to my internship.
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My career benefited greatly by taking on a very modestly paid internship ($90/week + room and board) as a teaching assistant for the digital lab of a summer workshop series at a film and photography institute on the East coast. I was fresh out of college with my BFA in Photographic Arts, and I can honestly say that if I hadn't taken that internship, I wouldn't be where I am with my career as a multimedia consultant today. The contacts I made with the instructors and students became the first stepping stones on my path as a computer book author, web developer and an established authority on web technology. The only awkwardness of my experience occurred when the lab manager quit and left. I was asked to assume his duties on top of my other TA commitments and my pay was left the same. I worked on average 12 hours a day, six days a week. The extra work was still outweighed by the immense benefit of meeting industry professionals and establishing lifelong contacts. One of the best fringe benefits was the final workshop dinner at the end of each week--I ate 12 full lobsters that summer!
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Several years ago, two years after college graduation, I contacted a museum out of interest in an unpaid internship. The HR administrator asked "Why aren't you doing this until now?"-- by that she meant, why hadn't I applied during college? At the time, in my mid-20s and wanting that internship, I responded diplomatically. I perhaps should have responded honestly however: I would have said I couldn't afford living in New York City and working at an unpaid internship until then. While some of my college classmates parents paid to support them while on such unpaid internships, mine didn't. Nor did I have relatives or family friends with whom I could stay. So it took me several years, as well as a time when I was unemployed, to find the right period and savings. I ultamitely was offered the opportunity. I am now thankful for the valuable exposure to an art museum department(although generally I was on my own and unsupervised), but also gained an view of that museum as one that was neither sympathetic nor aware of barriers to its internship program.
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Internships are a crock if you're a non-traditional student. I didn't go back to school until I was on the high side of 30 (I was 34 at the time.) and applied for a number of internships in my chosen field (accounting).
Well, I'm sure you can guess what happened...the internships went to the 20-somethings who were (probably) still living on Mommy and Daddy's dime and had opportunities to get involved with the Greek system (did that make the difference?...I'll never know.).
Nobody wants to take on a 30-something or a 40-something for an internship.
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Comments are now closed.
I'm 45 and I've been interning for 9 months with Multnomah County in the Department of Community Justice. This is the first time I've done it, and it is really great experience. It is around 30 hours a week, unpaid, and I've been getting out what I put into it. I consider it working, and it makes more sense to me to be working while collecting unemployment. Of course, I have to do job search as well, but honestly NO ONE can search 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. An internship allows me to take off for interviews and is flexible. I am able to take time to apply for positions if my daily search turns up some options. Additionally, I have access to internal county recruitments. I've applied to on-call positions, and part-time positions as well as full-time.
I've found that finding a satisfying position is not only about your skill set. It may indeed by who you know, and what alliances you've manage to build. I have just been recommended for two positions based on additional work I was available to do for a different division. Also, the longer I'm gaining experience, the more I'll qualify for other roles.
I've been a recruiter ( technical, financial, and many specific executive disciplines) for over 12 years and cannot find work in an economy like this. I've noticed that through volunteering and interning, I've learned the basics of several careers, and I'm aware of so many related positions where these skills can easily transfer.
The feedback I've gotten is this: Older interns show up and take the responsibility seriously, usually because they have had full time employment experience for years. Younger interns who are still in school often have so much else on their minds that they don't have as much time to give (in terms of weekly hours) so they don't have as much time to get a real feel for the position. If an intern is working for a summer outside of school they may get a better sense of the responsibilities.