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(Not) On a Jet Plane

AIR DATE: Wednesday, July 16th 2008

Download the mp3 for this show.

How will airline cutbacks impact the way you travel?

Last year 7,451 people flew from Pendleton to Portland on Horizon Air's 37-seat turbo prop plane. Is that enough people to justify the trip? According to Horizon, the answer is no. They've asked the Federal Government to change the flight to Pendleton - Walla Walla - Seattle - Portland. If the Feds decline Horizon warns it will have to ground the flight completely.

Horizon's also terminating direct flights between Portland and Klamath Falls and North Bend/Coos Bay (just as they built a new 25 million dollar airport). Delta -- the only regularly scheduled airline out of Salem -- is grounding all flights. They're also stopping their Eugene to Los Angeles flight. US Airways is pulling out of Eugene completely. And at Portland International Airport there's a 9.9 percent decline in the number of available seats on flights from a year ago.

Increased fuel costs and stagnant passenger loads are hitting the airline industry hard. And now those cuts are really starting to impact people who fly in the Pacific Northwest. Gone are the days of just making seats smaller and exchanging fancy china plates for small, light plastic ones. Now flights that many people rely on are being cut -- or the frequency reduced.

What's your experience flying in and out of airports in Oregon and Washington? Is your favorite flight being grounded? Will the cutbacks change the way you commute for business, hurt your company's bottom line, or limit how often you visit family and friends?

Photo credit: Davipt / Flickr / Creative Commons

Tagged as: airline · coos bay · eugene · klamath falls · pendleton · salem · travel

(welcome back Dave, I hope you had a good time away. no pony in the race today, just wanted to acknowledge your return)

tpohara — Tue July 15th 8:54p.m.

Thanks, Pat!

David Miller — Wed July 16th 11:03a.m.

It seems odd to me to cut back or drop flights, I'd have thought they would just increase prices to cover the increases. But they must have thought of that. I mean there are so many options, smaller aircraft, fewer flights, etc.

I wonder if bus and train trips will come back.


Years ago I rode a bus from Montana to Bend and got to meet a black man who took the bus all the way from Florida on the way to Eugene to watch his son graduate from the U of O. I was impressed.

Tom D Ford — Tue July 15th 9:42p.m.

A blogger named "Cranky Flier" had this interesting post back in January about "essential air service," including a handy google map he put together showing where all of the subsidized airports (as of Nov. '07) were located. It's worth a look.

David Miller — Wed July 16th 11:03a.m.

Why on earth would anyone sit on planes for four hours to get from Pendleton to Portland when it takes just over 3 hours to drive. I grew up in Pendleton and a couple times I flew into Pendleton on summer or winter break from college, and it was great to have a 45 minute flight instead of a 3 hour drive on top of a 4 hour flight from Chicago. Bottom line, folks from Pendelton aren't going to just fly to Portland, Seattle will be the new connection point to get out to other destinations.

rustle — Wed July 16th 12:41p.m.

Thanks for mentioning my blog on your show today. I unfortunately didn't hear about it until after the show, so I had to listen to the podcast and couldn't chime in live.

I have to say that I agree with Professor Gritta's comments about Horizon expanding into a smaller, 9-seat aircraft operation. That is not going to work. It really will need to be a separate operation that doesn't fly larger aircraft. Why? Because airlines operating aircraft that small can fly under different, less expensive operating conditions than larger aircraft. The 19 seaters used to be able to fly under that rule, but that changed about 10 years ago and those now have to operate under the same standards as larger aircraft. So, there can be cost savings by flying 9 seaters, despite the fact that there are fewer seats to spread the costs over.

It's true that not much can be done about fuel if you haven't hedged it by now, and that's why it's so important to keep all other costs low. That can make the difference between a viable flight and a loss of service. I don't know much about the $20m terminal that was referenced in the comments (and in the podcast), but that money has to be recouped, and one of the ways they do that is via higher landing fees. The best way an airport can keep an airline is to keep fees as low as possible, and generally a brand new terminal doesn't achieve that goal.

crankyflier — Thu July 17th 1:02a.m.

Terry Richard of the Oregonian on flying into (and out of) Coos Bay:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/terryrichard/2007/07/wow_a_place_on_the_oregon_coas.html

David Miller — Wed July 16th 12:19p.m.

What about the amount of fuel consumption that large jets use? I once heard that it took about 8 GALLONS for every 1 MILE a large 747 traveled. If that is correct is there a way which either using small planes with more frequent flights could help improve those numbers?

bowerman61028 — Wed July 16th 12:25p.m.

It seems that there is no business model that can support service to these small airports - it is the least fuel-efficient way to move passengers. I do not know why Oregon is increasing it's subsidies to these airports in Salem and Astoria when this business model is becoming less and less tenable. Wouldn't it make more sense for the state to subsidize modes that work towards it's greenhouse gas goals?

jimhiway — Wed July 16th 12:36p.m.

Terry Richard, from The Oregonian's "Travel With Terry" blog, on flying from Coos Bay:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/terryrichard/2007/07/wow_a_place_on_the_oregon_coas.html

David Miller — Wed July 16th 12:40p.m.

I live in PDX now, but lived and worked in Coos Bay for 6 years, and continue to do business on the south coast. My comment / question is: The old North Bend airport terminal was serviceable and effectively got folks on and off of planes. Wouldn't a better use of $20million been, not a new building, but a reserve fund available to directly subsidize commercial air service. At, say, $1million a year for 20 years the fund would be a big chip to play in enticing and securing long-term air service. In the end, a pole building as a terminal would work better than a brand new terminal with no service.

awzimm — Wed July 16th 12:40p.m.

$20 million of tax payer's money would be better spent contributing to the building of high speed electric rail and employing people in Oregon - not subsidizing an industry that pumps money into the Middle East oil nations.

HoustonB — Wed July 16th 1:40p.m.

Your guest is superb; very knowledgable and articulate. And you are obviously very well-prepared Emily.

As a retired Delta Air Lines Captain I was affected by the loss of my pension during the Chapter 11 reorganization; thousands of us were impacted enormously. Pilots at Delta are earning 50% less than I did and the company expects a $4 billion increase in fuel cost this year.

Prior to deregulation, air service was considered a public utility and I believe that the days of artificially low ticket prices are gone. We must re-regulate in order to restore stability and service to small communities.

Art Samson — Wed July 16th 12:42p.m.

I wonder if the Alaska bush pilot industry has any lessons for the lower 48 about how to service small towns and areas.

Tom D Ford — Wed July 16th 12:46p.m.

Go by train. The future of air travel will be marginal at best.Let's take the opportunity to invest in travel methods that are sustainable in the long run instead of shoring up technologies that may well have no future. Invest in the railways. People don't need to fly every where in the state.

honeyman — Wed July 16th 12:53p.m.

I agree with you about railways.

The German railway system is a wonderful example and probably the entire European Union as well.

Tom D Ford — Wed July 16th 1:25p.m.

I feel compelled to tell you about my recent flying experience (6/20 - 7/03/08). I will tell you that I am 71 years old, a fairly frequent flyer and certainly no starry-eyed Pollyanna. However, when things GO RIGHT, I still feel I must pass the information along. My daughter and I left PDX with two "free" tickets (United's Mileage Plus program). First of all, by September, 2007, I had tried three times before I got a United agent who actually was able to book 2 "free" tickets to Nice, France. Interestingly, this was a gentleman in the Philippines. The prior times, I had talked to obviously U.S. based employees, who I felt had been told to do everything they could to discourage any of these free flights. After telling the agent (named Tom Cuervo)my sad story, in 15 minutes, we had 2 tickets for Nice, France for June-July 2008.
I felt considerable trepidation about the flight. My daughter had been ill, didn't like to fly, and I had had my share of nightmare flights in the recent past. As it turned out, we did have a couple of "glitches", but they were handled extremely well. We flew United, Swiss Air, Lufthansa and United again. What became very obvious to me was that the attitude of ALL the employees we dealt with, was incredibly courteous, helpful and kind. By the time I arrive home, I had no recourse but to decide to change my previous attitude, which had become extremely cynical. I even went to far as to send United an email, commending one of their employees in Frankfurt, who was a PARAGON of intelligence, efficiency, etc. She actually was able to hold 395 passengers at bay for 2 hours, while a door was repaired. The food service company had damaged the door to the extent they didn't know if they were going to take off or not. With the exception of one old geezer who complained, everyone remained in good spirits, including numerous babies and small children. It was an amazing experience.
The other thing I saw for the first time, is as "frequent flyer" people using our "free miles", we were treated as well as the first class passengers. Normally, I've seen these people treated like dirt, and they are the last ones to be helped. This time, no such experience.
All in all, my faith has been restored that the airlines "get it". I find myself feeling sorry for them - it seems, in my opinion, they're doing the best they can, considering the overwhelming problems they're facing. I think it's important to say what happens "right", as well as what happens "wrong"!

Virginia Burgert — Wed July 16th 12:56p.m.

I just listened to your entire show driving back from PDX, Horizon having canceled my flight to Sacramento at 10a, and rescheduled it for 5pm - no advanced notification, or sincere apology. If the industry doesn't change its customer service attitude there will be a great opportunity for startups who give a damn about the customer.

MattBromley — Wed July 16th 12:59p.m.

I like that the Professor acknowledged the re-regulation point of view even though he is against it. He is not the typical ranting Free-Market lunatic and I appreciate and acknowledge him for it.

Good show overall.

Tom D Ford — Wed July 16th 1:22p.m.

I refrain from flying whenever I can, it's been years since I've flown, not because of the cost, but because o the service. Of course, I'm sure that Noah, the gentleman from Portland/San Francisco who commutes to california for work wouldn't agree as evidently, he flys back and forth every week. I make no apologies for someone who lives to that kind of excess, and has to pay through the nose to fly to work, actually it's the people that drive the big SUVs and have a life style where they need to fly back and forth to work that make me look forward to $5 or $6 a gallon gas. Oh, and BTW, Noah, I'll think about you everytime I ride my bike to work, and every month when spend my $50 for my modest driving habit.

FredPDX — Wed July 16th 1:54p.m.

Katherine Hoppe, our guest from the Coos Bay/North Bend Visitors and Convention Bureau, mentioned that there's no train or bus service from Coos Bay. Our ever-alert reporter Chris Lehmann emailed to tell us that there is in fact bus service, which you can find here:

http://www.kokkola-bus.com/PSLSchedule.html

David Miller — Wed July 16th 3:06p.m.

Ah, there's this, too, if you're looking for signs of MORE flights to and from Portland:

JetBlue is adding a non-stop to Long Beach, CA

David Miller — Wed July 16th 3:20p.m.

I was reciently on a US airways flight from las vegas to portland it was a red eye an i couldent sleep so i started talking to the stuard and she told me they were going to start charing for drinks.....so now we dont get food or drinks, in my opinion thats just not fare

littlem — Thu July 17th 12:56a.m.

I just want to share my awful experience with Priceline as a result of airline cut backs...

I have now contacted Priceline twice for assistance. I am scheduled to fly from Portland to Cancun this November on Mexicana Airlines (as party of a group birthday celebration, mine being one of the birthdays). However, it was announced several weeks ago that Mexicana Airlines was pulling out of Portland and would no longer be serving Portland International Airport as of September 2nd. When I called Priceline previously, I was told that no one could help me because Priceline was not aware of this airline change. The last customer service agent I spoke with at Priceline, Raynetta, even told me Priceline was still selling tickets for Mexicana flights from Portland in November. I was told that sometime in future (although my customer service rep couldn't say when) I would be taken care of (although she couldn't tell how I would be helped) IF Priceline became aware of the airline change. I was told to sit and wait for an email. That was three weeks ago...

However, I have now called Mexicana Airlines directly. They have confirmed with me that they will no longer be serving Portland. They said they would be happy to refund my ticket in full but that the refund had to take place through Priceline. They said that if Priceline would cancel my ticket and submit a refund request to the "refund queue" that a refund would be issued to me.

This is my second time contacting Priceline for assistance. My friends who booked tickets through Orbitz have been taken care of and now have new, reissued tickets on other carriers. As I sit waiting for Priceline to help me, I'm watching the price of new tickets to Mexico go up and up and wondering what will happen when Priceline finally decides to do something about my ticket. I find this simply unacceptable.

If Priceline still refuses to help me after this second attempt to resolve this issue, I will be filing a letter of complaint with the Better Business Bureau and contacting other consumer groups to let them know how badly Priceline treats their customers.

TiahMaria — Thu July 17th 12:05p.m.

Comments are now closed.