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The Employment Boom

AIR DATE: Monday, April 14th 2008

Download the mp3 for this show.

Is society ready for your final decades? Are you?

Questions, questions, questions.

As the oldest of the 76 million baby boomers approach classic retirement age, they, their employers, and society at large are facing many more questions than answers. For example: what happens if boomers stop working? Are there enough younger people waiting in the wings to take their jobs? (In the mining industry, one out of every four workers is over 55. In construction, according to one estimate, 50% of the workforce will retire in the next 10 years.) Are there enough funds in social security and Medicare to pay out to folks who would no longer be paying in?

On the other hand, what happens if boomers don't retire? Are employers prepared to handle the higher pay, more flexible hours, and technical training that an older workforce may require?

And then there are questions about the work itself. Should jobs adapt as workers get older? Should employees? Should both?

We're about to face a demographic employment shift as momentous as when women entered the workforce after World War II, our guest Mark Freedman likes to point out. Are we ready? Are you?

Are you working now -- at 55, or 65, or 75 -- not because you want to but because you need to? Has your likely retirement age gone up as your 401(k) investments have gone down?

Or have you voluntarily embarked on a new career at a time when your parents' generation was wrapping theirs up -- and has it given your life new meaning?

If 70 is the new 50, is a career change at 60 the new mid-life crisis opportunity? What's your plan for your final decades? Is society ready for it?

GUESTS:

• Marc Freedman: Founder/CEO of Civic Ventures and author of Encore: Work That Matters in the Second Half of Life
• Jane Sharp: Former Los Alamos National Laboratory administrator, now works for Metropolitan Family Service's Experience Corps program
• Art Ayre: State Employment Economist, Oregon Employment Department. Author of Will Oregon Have Enough Workers?
• Richard Lucero: Former printer, now a registered nurse for Legacy Hospitals

Tagged as: babyboomer · jobs · senior

There are some of us out here who will retire at the height of our education and training because employers no longer want us around. Employees of long experience are sometimes perceived as a threat to their (often) younger supervisors or managers. Most workplaces are trying to attract younger workers, and having a lot of grey hair in the office or shop might not be as attractive.

jmarcw — Mon April 14th 12:03p.m.

Jmarcw, I would agree with you that this is happening, however I would say that the main reason it is happening is greed: the companies can pay younger workers a much lower salary. Companies today demand complete and total loyalty from employees forcing them to sign non-competitive agreements and running background checks on employees as low on the totem pole as janitors yet these same companies offer little to no loyalty to the employees who have dedicated decades of service to the same companies.

mydogatemyemail — Mon April 14th 12:14p.m.

I just read an article by George Will (with whom I typically disagree) stating that when Social Security was enacted in 1935, the life expectancy of an adult male was 65. Today, the life expectancy of an adult male is 75. While I don't relish the thought of our elderly citizens toiling in perpetual servitude, I think we need to nurture the idea that these citizens are able and willing to contribute to our community and economy. And as our economy has shifted from an industrial model to an information economy, the strong back is not as critical as the strong mind.

sawbuck — Mon April 14th 12:26p.m.

The answer is simple: solient green.

I'm kidding. I think that it is awesome that we've got such an active group of people reaching their golden years -- probably one of the most active in history. I think that in Oregon we've got a very well educated and progressive group of baby boomers reaching their senior years; however, I think that other regions of the country won't be so lucky having to deal with a senior population that has not planned for this time in their lives.

I don't think that the problem of filling jobs left vacant by boomers will hurt Oregon as we have a glut of educated workers struggling to find employment in Portland with more moving here every month. The retirement of these boomers will be a welcomed gift to Oregon.

mydogatemyemail — Mon April 14th 12:12p.m.

At 55 (almost 56), I have been out of work for four months--the longest time I have been involuntarily unemployed since I was sixteen. For the first time, I an not acing interviews, and I wonder how much of it has to do with age. What about the boomers who do not have the education or the experience to move into these life-affirming jobs in the second half of their lives? What about the ones who don't have a choice about whether to work or retire, because they have not earned enough in their lifetimes to save for retirement, because they have no IRA's or 401K's?

debbied — Mon April 14th 12:22p.m.

Regarding your moderator's concern that baby boomers are going to use up all of "her" Social Security money: Guess what? WE PAID IN and that is OUR MONEY! Blame the government. If they invested the money that we ALL pay into Social Security, even with simple interest, we would be in fine shape for retirement. The problem is the government SPENDS our Social Security money! By the way I am 51 and my husband is 61, and considering the pathetic SS money we'll be getting, we figure we are on the "work til we drop" program anyway. AnneMarie

AnneMarie — Mon April 14th 12:26p.m.

Take a deep breath Anne! You're gonna pop a blood vessel! :-) I'm kidding. I understand your assertion that it is "your money" that you've paid into Social Security, however the statistics bear out that most people in the baby boomer age group will live longer and collect many times the amount of money they've paid into the program: leaving the question of who is going to pay for that extra money boomers will be collecting. The population and economy will not be able to sustain these over payments to boomers.

mydogatemyemail — Mon April 14th 12:40p.m.

As the population ages, so does the number of people who develop disabilities, such as blindness. It would seem there is a need to provide more services for the blind, and there should be more opportunities for older sighted people to volunteer. At OPB, there was such a service, called Golden Hours, which is a radio reading service for the blind. Many older people volunteered there, and many blind people appreciated the service. I volunteered there for several years, and it was very fulfilling. But now, OPB is dropping this service, depriving a growing blind population of a valuable service. I think we boomers, who are major supporters of public broadcasting, should encourage and insist that public broadcasting serve all the population, and not drop a service that costs very little and is very important to those older people it serves.

SteveA — Mon April 14th 12:28p.m.

My husband and I are approaching our retirement years through entrepreneurship. I took some classes on how to build a website then spent 3 years building an online business. We have just started training a younger group of employees to run parts of it. We hope it will sustain our need to work as well as offer financial support. It also helps a little by creating a few new jobs for the next generation.

cowgrrrlup — Mon April 14th 12:30p.m.

We all have to agree that the boomer generation has not lived up to its responsibilities so far. The boomer generation has been the most aided generation in history, especially when it came to schooling. I am in my late twenties, the son of two college graduates, who had to join the army to pay for school. Neither of my parents had to pay much of anything for tuition at the state schools that they went to when they were young. On the other hand, my generation has had to acquire huge student loans in order to pay balooning tuition and fees because my parents generation was not willing to pay for education through taxes the way their parents were.

Now we are talking about how we kind mae sure they find new and interesting jobs so they have wonderfully productive golden years? Who is trying to get me into those jobs? I would like to reinvent society. But my chosen profession, as a history teacher, is packed full of boomers who are not looking to retire anytime soon. So I am likely to continue bar tending until I finish my Phd, because I can't afford to do otherwise. I love my parents, but haven't they had enough opportunities already?

new historian — Mon April 14th 12:30p.m.

As a Gen-Xer I notice a lot of antipathy towards the boomers especially among the 20 & 30 somethings. It seems to me that we'll see some sort of inter-generational conflict due to the perception among the young that the boomers have "ruined things" both economically and ecologically.

skeptictank — Mon April 14th 12:40p.m.

As a 40 year old with boomer parents, I've got to say that I resent the hypocrisy of the boomer generation. They were full of socially conscious ideals in the 1960's and 1970's that they completely abandoned in the 1980's for money. Little of this money made in the 1980's was put aside for retirement spent to satisfy instant gratification. They went from a generation of "free love" instant gratification to a generation of "free spending" with putting the burden of their retirement on their children and grandchildren. I see it as a very selfish and hypocritical generation.

mydogatemyemail — Mon April 14th 12:58p.m.

I'm not a big fan of any generation. However, it is lunacy to say that the boomers are collectively sellouts. The current generation has hardly gotten kinder and more altruistic; even if you can argue it has, if we can blame boomers for the current state of the nation, we can also partially credit them with the possible success of the new generation. Or did they exist in a vacuum?

scottmil — Mon April 14th 1:30p.m.

Where do you draw the line on opportunities? You could take it global if you'd like. Americans today clearly have more opportunities then people of many other nations. I guess one thing the current generation has picked up from the past is blaming everyone else for their problems along with a profound sense of entitlement.

Neither of my boomer parents went to college, so I guess your family is notches above ours. You might want to blame yourself for lack of research into the viability of a profession then some half-baked overreaching idea that the boomers are all to blame.

scottmil — Mon April 14th 12:46p.m.

I've never appreciated the characterization of the boomer generation as the "me generation". That phrase is a product of Madison Avenue and a media controlled by a few corporations, for the the purposes of entertainment. I was in the first group of 18 year-olds that were allowed to vote (previously the age was 21). From the first time I voted, the majority of elections have been won by someone for whom I have not voted. Reagan, and the Republicans that have followed in Presidency and Congress, were put in power by the generation that followed the boomers. If anything exemplifies "me-ism", it is the workings of the Republican, neo-con agenda. This agenda is what has destroyed the middle class, the environment, and our democracy. So to the historian whiner, look to those who have supported the neo-con Republican agenda - not baby boomers, as where the course correction needs to occur.

PS - Although I did receive a California Opportunity Grant that helped me get through undergraduate school (which is no longer available thanks to Republican withdrawal of funds to support kids pursuing upper education), I got through undergraduate and graduate school by getting low-interest student loans (low interest loans no longer being available because of our elected leaders in the corporatocracy). I have spent my entire professional life doing work that involved compassion for others.

So, if you want change, elect people that restore our democracy and shift priorities from war profiteering, and policies and laws that benefit corporations first and people last.

ThereseMarieG — Mon April 14th 1:15p.m.

The work that most desperately needs to be done in our society right now is to fix our crumbling infrastructure. Are baby boomers going to step up to that task, or is it not sexy and fulfilling enough? So far, they haven't even shown their willingness to pay their way, the way their parents taxed themselves to pay for all the benefits the young boomers enjoyed.

newshound — Mon April 14th 12:39p.m.

Give us some specific examples of what you'd suggest boomers do. Not what's happened in the past, but what to do now.

SteveA — Mon April 14th 12:45p.m.

I am responding to the on-air question about what those of us are doing in our 30's and 40's about retirement. I have been unable to do a thing about it. I came through a divorce with nothing myself and my kids. I am lucky to have a job that just pays the bills, but doesn't have benefits. Retirement? (crazed laughter.....) I will probably be working until I die.

FrancyBee — Mon April 14th 12:40p.m.

Question for Marc: isn?t the reality that for most Boomers seeking some kind of paying jobs, that the institutionalized bias against older workers will not change easily without major changes in our age discrimination laws, mainly because most employers still will not want to take on the generally higher salaries and health costs associated with Boomers. Isn?t it really a very small percentage of Boomers who have broken thru these barriers so far? Jon in portland

jzall1 — Mon April 14th 12:44p.m.

I am curious to see what the impact will be on society when college bound teenagers who have typically worked part time jobs at restaurants, retailers, etc. to save for school find that they cannot find such jobs because they are being held by elderly baby boomers needing to work these same jobs just to make ends meet.

mydogatemyemail — Mon April 14th 12:46p.m.

I am 63, an active artist and author. My husband passed away recently after cancelling his insurance and running up large debts that I didn't know about. Instead of rolling over and giving up, I assessed the situation, took money out of my IRA and bought a big house in the midst of downtown that was zoned commercial. I put my art studio in the dining room, opened up a boutique in the living room, and took in three roommates. Now I have workspace, a job to do every day and three friends for company. If the boutique doesn't make money I can write off the loss on my taxes! My sister is 67 and the two of us started writing books together a few years ago and the audio version of our first published "cozy" mystery, "A Corpse in the Soup", won the US Book News award for "Best Audio Mystery of 2007". I have the feeling that neither me or my sister will ever stop working, it's the way to stay alive!

pbradner — Mon April 14th 12:48p.m.

At 50yrs old, I lost a job with American Express due to middle management cuts directly after 911. Being in the travel industry for 25yrs, I knew it would be difficult to find similar employment for same pay. I was not trained to do anything else. I made the decision to go back to school for nursing. After 2.5yrs, and consistently achieving a 4.0 GPA, I was ready to enter the registered nursing lottery. My number was not selected. After 3 more attempts entering the lottery and my number not being selected, I am wondering if there is such a shortage in the health care field, why aren't more qualified people being trained?

I am now 54 and scared for my future. I eventually found a job in the travel industry working from home as a commission only independent contractor. No health or retirement benefits. I feel I have a lot to offer and expect to work past age 65. I will continue to apply for employment in the health care field.

Marcia PDX — Mon April 14th 12:49p.m.

Hi There!

I guess I am one the 50% in your statistics who, fell by the side of history!
I am 54, an Engineer. I took an early retirement two years ago, probably not by choice! I lost my entire early retirement settlement in a battle with Breast Cancer where we Lost The mother of my children. My IRA is down in value to less than 50 Grand. I spent everything else I had on putting 3 Kids in college.

Now I am thinking of returning back to work. But with a non-Compete Clause, I would have to move as far away as Florida, or take a different career, like a Truck Driver for example! ?.. How typical is my situation in your statistics?

George
Vancouver, WA

Count Bernadotte — Mon April 14th 12:49p.m.

My mother will turn 70 this July and is the broker/owner of a successful small real estate company here in Eastern Oregon. She is a single mother of 5, grandma and great grandma and has tried to slow down and even sell the business but demand has kept her going non-stop. Many young people wouldn't or couldn't keep up with her 24/7 schedule and I don't see her retiring in the near future. She is a community volunteer and member of a local service organization, she has worked hard her enitre life and I just really can't see how she would deal with retirement.

Christina
Baker City, Oregon

cwitham — Mon April 14th 12:52p.m.

My model is my father who retired this past December at 90 1/2 years old. He worked every day, 8 hours per day, 5 days a week for the United Sewerage Agency in Hillsboro as an electrician. His motivation was he enjoyed the work, it was where his friends were, and so why leave. I went to his retirment party at his work, and heard how their health insurance carrier each year they called them to fix the mistake in one of their employee's age.

rxensen — Mon April 14th 12:54p.m.

Money isn't the reason Boomers are being replaced by younger workers-it's that they are out of touch. Boomers cut their teeth in an age without computers, cell phones, and email, and these conveniences have dramatically changed the competitive marketplace, and Boomers' core experiences are largely absent these crucial competitive skills. Boomers have brought us stalemate partisan politics, have irresponsibly avoided social security and medicare fixes, and have caused the current economic crisis. It's time for the 'me' generation to step aside and let the 'we' generation get to work.

ticker — Mon April 14th 12:55p.m.

Excuse me. We invented the microprocessor and the personal computer. But I'll grant you the politics, SS, and medicare

SteveA — Mon April 14th 12:59p.m.

And you are wholeheartedly deserving of praise for your technology discoveries-heck, it's letting us converse as we speak!

ticker — Mon April 14th 1:10p.m.

Don't let ageism be your excuse for failure. I'm 51 - there has always been a high level of competition for work between boomers because there have always been so many of us; we're used to it. Plently of 20 and 30 year olds have figured out how in integrate with the boomer workforce. As far as stepping to plate to take care of the planet and infrastructure, I think you are confusing the Reagan revolution with the age of voters. I am pretty sure age has little to do with political ideology. Don't let your freinds vote Republican or your children will make the same accusation of you.

Ersatzcat — Mon April 14th 12:56p.m.

The boomer problem is overblown. There will be some minor hiccups, but this country is resilient enough to handle it. Even if it isn't, the world is becoming ever global, and hopefully along with increased globalization comes added elasticity.

It seems this "problem" is almost as overstated as the panic that is going to ensue with the switch to digital broadcasting! Wasn't Y2K enough?

scottmil — Mon April 14th 12:56p.m.

Finally, I don't feel voiceless. I'm turning 60 this year. Two years ago I discovered what I was meant to do in life, which is journalism. I've taken out student loans and am now more than halfway through my master's program in journalism/news-ed at U. Oregon.
I've had the ups and downs in life: had a good-paying job; bought a house; lost the job; had to take out a second mortgage to repair surprises in the house; hated my new job for 15 years, but tried to make it work; quit travel profession; sold house a year before housing prices skyrocketed; tried some different things; worked whatever jobs I could get; tried out some other jobs to find what I wanted to do. Have no savings and now no house, but am more mobile, and count myself a lucky, but broke person, who has found what she loves in life.

p.m.jamieson — Mon April 14th 12:58p.m.

The most common error when discussing boomers and their impacts on society is always lumping them together as if they are all alike. The progressive boomers have largely had nothing but good impacts on society - e.g. in shifting attitudes towards more sensible positions on most issues and freeing up everyone's lives in general. But there were always many non-progressive boomers as occurs in all generations. These people are the ones who screw things up if and when they gain power. The Bushes of the world. And as has already been said, Boomers have worked all their lives - just like previous generations - and have paid taxes to support the whole system throughout that complete time.

tomdix — Mon April 14th 1p.m.

I have heard that for someone switching careers, esp. those of us in this age group or older, that the path of least resistance is to find something at lease somewhat related to your "core" career OR something that you are passionate about or have done on a part time or volunteer basis. To do otherwise, as I have tried briefly in health care (if no previous background), requires a lot more effort and selling of yourself. In terms of continuing education, online classes save a lot of time, gas etc. and may be less disruptive to a current job. When I will retire, who knows? We are working w/ a financial planner to try to help answer that. Best guess now is 68-70, but may continue to work reduced hours after that.

pwieber — Mon April 14th 1:03p.m.

Hello Mark Freedman! I was listening to the NPR program this morning, tried to call in but was not able to get selected I suppose. I think this topic of older Americans and the workplace is a tremendously important one and this could easily be a weekly radio hour since there is so much to talk about and have listener input and discussion.

I myself represent someone who made a career change about 10 yrs ago, went back to get another masters degree, this one in counselor education. I try to serve individuals, couples, families with low-cost mental health, addictions and career -related counseling in a private practice. Almost aall my clients are uninsured and so my private practice has very uneven income, even at a very modest level. Thus, I started to seek outside employment with non-profit or heathcare agencies and have experienced what I consider substantial age discrimination. Being only a young 56, but having gray hair, and much prior work experience in the high-tech business arena, I am disappointed that would-be agency employers do not see the high value that I offer to their clients. Rather, younger people, who have become managers in these agencies, seem to stereotype people like me and thus hire only younger people like themselves. I think this does great disservice to the clients of many of these agencies who might seek more seasoned, worldly-experienced clinicians. I continue with my private practice but also continue to seek at least part-time positions or contracts but the stereotyping of older, qualified workers by generally younger managers remains a critical issue that needs to be addressed. Not everyone my age is getting ready to retire, but rather we want to work long and dedicatedly to help others. I stand ready to join in a forum to help resolve such issues. I can write a book about my expereinces and observations and suggestions, but first I will need a little income to get to that phase. It seems that many non-profits are hiring from within and moving up the younger folks into management positions rather than looking outside the box and asking just what is the right mix of personnel to provide the services listed in the agency's mission.

But many thanks for your involvement! This topic is sorely needed!

VinPietro
LPC, LMHC, CADC, CGAC, CRC, NCC
MS, MBA, MLS
vinpietro07@yahoo.com

VinPietro — Mon April 14th 2:19p.m.

I wish I had been able to hear more of this program then the few minutes that I caught between jobs. I guess that one thing that I will need to do as a baby boomer is learn about getting podcasts on my computer so that I can hear the whole program at my convenience...just one more new thing for me to learn so that I can continue to work. Due to circumstances in my life I have never been able to earn a lot of money so consequently will not have much coming (if I am lucky enough to get anything) when I turn 65. I am now 60 years old but am looking at the fact that I will have to continue to work until I can't possibly work any longer for some reason. My husband is 59 and would love to be able to retire by age 62 but it doesn't look like that will be a possibility for either one of us. If we want to be able to pay our bills we will have to continue to work. I have a very small IRA which only has $750 in it at the moment since we had to start it so late in my life. My husband has a small 401k through his work but since we cannot afford to contribute the maximum to it it won't go very far when we finally do retire. We both hope that the conditions that we both are suffering from now will not make it where we are forced to retire for many years yet. It is a good thing that I enjoy the work I am doing right now as a caregiver; I hope I can continue to do it for many years. As long as I don't have to do any heavy lifting (which I can no longer do due to degenerative disc disease) I should be ok but one never knows these days. I am also trying to get a business going on the internet but so far haven't had a lot of luck with that. I will keep trying to get that business going better while I am doing my care giving work.

It's a good thing that I've never been against hard work in my life because it's all I've ever done. Growing old sure isn't for sissies.

Carol A. — Tue April 15th 1:37a.m.

I have over 10 years of exp. helping people with career exploration and job search. I see many older workers who are seeking more satisfying careers or need to update their skills or find less physically demanding work. I want to become a career counselor specializing in working with boomer gen. I am interviewing tomorrow for a masters in counseling program, and will be 58 by the time I graduate. You bet it is scary taking on a significant debt at my age and yes, I worry that I will not have the memory power to succeed in my studies. But the fear of just playing it safe and remaining tight in the bud is greater than the fear of taking this risk.

aintmissbeehaven — Tue April 15th 2:16a.m.

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