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For over a month now, jurors have been hearing testimony in the trial of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge. The father and son are accused of planting a bomb in a Woodburn bank in 2008 that killed two police officers and cost another his leg. Each man has implicated the other in the crime. The prosecution will call their final witness Tuesday and is expected to rest their case that day. The defense would then begin calling witnesses when the trial resumes November 16.
One defense witness has drawn a lot of attention already. Judge Thomas Hart ruled that the defense can call Janet Turnidge — Bruce Turnidge's wife and Joshua Turnidge's mother — as a witness, even though Oregon law exempts spouses from incriminating one another in court. This is just one of the issues that's come up since the judge decided the two men would be tried together, despite their requests for separate trials. They do have separate defense teams and each has plead not guilty.
The prosecution argues that both men are guilty and that they specifically intended to kill police officers. Prosecutors have said they will seek the death penalty in this case. Painting the two as anti-government extremists has been a key part the case against them.
Have you been following this trial? What questions do you have? Are you a Woodburn resident? How have bank bombing and the trial affected your community?
GUESTS
- April Baer: Reporter for OPB News
- Desiree Kiesel: Woodburn resident and vice principal of a local school
- Janet Hoffman: Defense attorney with Janet Hoffman and Associates
- Doug Harcleroad: Retired Lane County District Attorney and senior policy advisor for the Oregon Anti-Crime Alliance
- Gerard Saucier: Professor of psychology at the University of Oregon
Photo credit: Joe Gratz / Creative Commons
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Blowing up people is not free speech. I have never heard any twisted 'shouting of fire' on conservative radio that encourages killing police officers. Or bombing banks and blowing up innocent people. This is not like any high school bullying I have ever witnessed. These defendants have used their own sick and twisted logic to justify their violent acts.
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You make a good point here... I noticed that I became a lot less angry when I stopped listening to talk radio in the mid 90's... from the left or right, it didn't matter, listening to either left me angry as they all seemed intent on polarizing me... I finally got tired of it all and stopped paying attention to virtually all broadcast media (to this day, aversion therapy).
I still don't trust government... but not in the extreme. ;-)
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" I have never heard any twisted 'shouting of fire' on conservative radio that encourages killing police officers."
Then you must have missed G. Gordon Liddy's advice to shoot low when the police break into your home to take away your guns... at the time (~1995) police body armor didn't cover their manly-bits.
I only bring this up as a number of readers may have missed the "cowboy years" of talk radio.
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cfbednarek
Leaders and propagandists rarely ever give direct and traceable orders to do some action, they just build up the anger and hatred knowing full well that someone listening to them will take some drastic and criminal action for them. They say things like "somebody ought to do something", or "why doesn't somebody do something", etc. Just listen to Palin, or Beck, or Limbaugh, or Savage or any of the rest of that ilk.
Hitler was an example, historians just only recently found papers with his signature on them linking him to what was done for him. And they have been searching for something like that since WW2.
And that applies to people like Pres. Reagan, who testified to Congress that "he did not recall" any of the Iran-Contra stuff that just happened on his watch and that he had wanted to happen.
Same with Corporate CEOs, they talk in ambiguous terms, knowing that the people they promoted fully understand what is wanted to occur.
"Plausible Deniability" is the term used during the Reagan hearings.
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I listen to Mike Malloy>>. and he really riles me up against those as he call them "wretched pig farts" >. he has other terms for conservatives too. But using liblogic >. that's okay, Obviously, little Tommy has been listening to MIKE MALLOY too>. cause he seems abit riled up.
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This is what would happen if Bart Simpson grew up and he and Homer dreamed up a get-rich-quick scheme. Substitute Turnidge for SIMPSON. And Bruce for Homer. The only thing that could make this dysfunctional family picture perfect for Oregon is if Tonya Harding was the mother/wife.( ie Tonya Turnidge)
These guys apparently hate each other. The most just punishment would be life imprisonment sharing the same cell with bunk beds. I just hope the prison system will not permit conjugal visits leading to more little Turnidges. Possible one will kill the other in time turning a life sentence into a death sentence. The question is who will be whacked and who will claim it was an accident.
The failure of this pair to successfully conduct a heist, mis-time a bomb and ulitmately get caught parallels other failures of recent bombers: the NW Airlines Christmas Underwear Bomber, the Shoe Bomber, the Times Square Bomber and the Columbine Bomber.
In some ways they all have in common a poor science, math and engineering education. And poor problem solving skills. In some ways a failed education system prevented mayhem and death, because making a bomb is an engineering project requiring real skills and even mathematics.
Bad education can save lives and kids are getting one everyday. Good job local schools!
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Jacob, you are wrong about what it takes to make a bomb, but I am not going to explain why, because I'd just as soon have people believe your assertion.
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"In some ways they all have in common a poor science, math and engineering education."
I worry less about an angry uneducated person than an angry educated person... I'd rather face uneducated folk and the bomb they made in their garage than an amplified virus an educated person made in their kitchen with their Easy-Bake Virus kit.
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I did find this whole thing pretty amusing, perhaps I am terrible. Woodburn is such a conservative community and I have to suspect that the people harmed by this were the very people who would generally never vote to allow gun controls. And Woodburn is hardly some idyllic, tight-knit community, it is a place, like many places, that is full of anger, mixed with a whole lot of trash. Is there any community in America that is allegedly not tightly-knit and full of family values?
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Are you attempting to draw a connection between your assumption that a community would not approve of gun control and two people bombing a bank?
That is a stretch even for you
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I wasn't aware gun control laws limited ones access to explosives as well.
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uncommonsense,
No, it was based on the Turnidges’ desire to purchase guns, and also their fear of gun control, which is alleged as one of the reasons they were so angry that they wanted to teach people a lesson. Yes, I find an ironic connection, if you don’t, then stretch your intellect elsewhere.
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OK, well I will drop a bucket of knowledge on your intellect
2 people from a city of 23,000 is not a reasonable indicator of the city's gun control stance.
Real Irony would require more than .00008% of the population for a sample.
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uncommonsense,
Oh, gosh, gee, thanks for that. I wasn’t aware I was making a generalization.... . Nope, had no idea. In fact, I was purposefully making a generalization, and what of it?
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Some may suspect sarcasm in such a sardonic statement.
Very adult
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I hope the prosecution doesn't screw this up and let these guys go free.
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Hopefully the jury is comprised of intelligent individuals capable of looking at the facts and drawing an appropriate conclusion.
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It's not the jury that worries me, it's building a solid case that will survive the appeals processes.
And this question of "privilege", well I hope that the prosecution has spent sleepless nights before deciding that they are taking the correct track. Seems like a risky move that could backfire under appeals. I hope they've covered their butts and the publics.
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Ironically the exclaimation point of 9/11 turned many small time terrorist groups like the IRA, Aum Shirikio, Quebec Separatists, and Puerto Rico Liberation Front AWAY FROM VIOLENT TERRORISM.
Unfortunately, the Arab/Muslim world now orginate 95% of world wide terrorism. The next time a plane blows up in mid air, there is no mystery anymore.
The Turnidges let us know we have our own psychotic nut cases, but they are rare.
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It is odd how rare they are, and how infrequently things like this happen. It is surprising we don’t have more people going off their rocker. Are we doing something right? Maybe people don’t go crazier, because they are afraid someone with a gun might stop them! But, seriously, it is very surprising that things kind of, go about, so normally. I often think about it when I am a passenger in a car, and although people certainly don’t do a good job of following the rules, they follow them in essence, people aren’t exactly mowing people down every day intentionally. For the most part things run relatively smoothly.
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Lifetime prevalance for Schizoprenia is 2%. We have nutcases on this forum everyday. Most are harmless. Some empty threats but some are potentials.
Sometimes you have to pay attention to their words and assess their threats.
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"Lifetime prevalance for Schizoprenia is 2%. We have nutcases on this forum everyday. Most are harmless. Some empty threats but some are potentials."
This from Jacob, who called President Lincoln a Communist.
Psychologists call it "projecting".
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KOMRADE TOM:
IT IS SLANDER TO SAY SUCH THINGS.
SHOW ME THE STATEMENT THAT I ADDRESSED LINCOLN AS A COMMUNIST.
YOU ARE MAKING THINGS UP, AND LOSING IT. AND I FEAR YOUR VIOLENT STATEMENTS, DERROGATORY INSULTS, AND REVOLUTIONARY SUGGESTIONS.
SEEK HELP. GOD HELP YOU. GOODBYE.
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The Oregonian and KATU originally reported that the person who received the initial bomb threat by phone went on record as saying that the voice on the line used sophisticated vocabulary and precise directions that were consistent with what a soldier or a government agent might use. Does this match the MO of the accused suspects? I don't think so. They are uneducated, small town bumpkins with no experience to indicate they would make a phone call like that, especially in a measured and sophisticated way.
The bombing was absolutely tragic. Local events such as this one are popping up around the country at a time when the government is very concerned about mass numbers of US citizens rejecting government policies. This is worth thinking about. Black (illegally) unmarked helicopters with armed gunmen on the runners flew over Portland in pairs for two solid weeks before KATU reported on the phenomenon in the summer of 2008, saying the helicopters were related to special forces training for "urban riots" in the future.
The way that Woodburn police handled the case was also tragic. It is, perhaps, understandable, since the event was so unusual and occured in a sleepy little town, but it is still tragic. Why on earth would police carry a suspicious box into a building and attempt to examine it with other people in the proximity, especially high ranking police officials? The bomb investigation protocol was poorly planned, poorly executed, and the results were tragic. My heart goes out to those who suffered emotionally, and especially those families who suffered terrible loss of life and limb.
The two men being accused might well have carried out the terrible acts of that day; however, just because bomb making supplies have been recovered in their homes does not automatically make them guilty. The Gulf of Tonkin attack was staged. This is a fact. It has been DECLASSIFIED OPENLY. America fought an entire war based on a set-up and "planting" of false evidence. If the Vietnam War was based on a set-up, then a small town bombing certainly could be, as well.
The real question is whether this conspiracy was carried out by two Woodburn bumpkins, or whether it is part of a larger pattern of violence that is not necessarily being pursued by investigative reporters. Why not? Well, maybe because there ARE NO investigative journalists left anymore, especially on so-called "public" radio.
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The cops should have left the bomb outside where it was and cleared the area, instead they pick it up and take it inside a bank where people are>>. ofcourse that should not be mentioned cause ist not politically correct to do so >>>>. well,
EXCUUUUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEEE
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Comments are now closed.
"Anti-government extremists".
I can't help but think that this is one of the inevitable results of people like Fox News, Beck and company, and Limbaugh shouting "Fire" in our political theatre. It brings out and encourages the extremists like this. Fox News, Beck, and Limbaugh don't do the actual crimes, they just enable them and their hands are clean on "Free Speech" grounds.
It's like the little high school twerp-bully who shouts encouragement to his big dumb friend to beat up somebody because of some invented slight from the victim.