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Unemployed for Ages
Congress has now passed and President Obama has signed the tax cuts compromise, which includes an extension of federal unemployment benefits. But the continuation of benefits won't help anyone who has already received a check for 99 weeks. That remains the maximum possible in Oregon and Washington – some states are less, as you can see on this handy map.
Oregon's unemployment rate jumped another tenth of a percentage point in November, though people are being hired. Unemployment here is still higher than the national average. Oregon is starting a study of the effects of long term unemployment on individuals' future wages. There's also a debate about the whether unemployment benefits discourage people from getting back to work.
We'll hear from people on this show who've been unemployed a long time about how they are managing. What are you seeing or experiencing? How has Oregon's high unemployment rate affected you? Even with the extension of the federal benefits program, Oregon is expecting thousands of people a week to reach the end of benefits this spring. How will this affect the state?
GUESTS:
- Cathy and Paul Beauchesne: unemployed couple in Bend who have depended heavily on unemployment insurance benefits
- Greg Rosen: co-founder American 99ers Union, unemployed since 2008, has exhausted all 99 weeks of unemployment insurance benefits
- Tom Fuller: communications manager for WorkSource Oregon
- Russ Meyer: freelance writer, unemployed since 2008
- Phil Levine: professor of economics at Wellesley College
Tagged as: economy · unemployment
Photo credit: Doug Geisler / Creative Commons
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I have heard of proposals to bring on a WPA Jobs program to America.
We MUST CREATE SUSTAINABLE JOBS, not millions of transient make-work jobs.
Example: Have a group of people form a giant circle. Everyone turns the person to their right, and gives them a personal neck massage. Each person is now earning $60 dollars an hour giving massages. However they must also pay the person behind them $60 bucks an hour for receiving a custom neck message.
Yes, we just created a 100 new jobs making $60/ hour, but the value is in the ether. No wealth is created. No customer will pay real money for the service. These jobs are not sustainable.
Similarly we can hire someone to dig a hole by hand for $30/ hour. And we can hire another worker to refill the hole for $30/ hour. And they both perform work, but add no value. There is no purpose to the work. These jobs are not Sustainable.
In the Housing Boom, construction jobs, interior decoration, architects, mortgage brokers, realty, personal wealth mmg were not sustainable and we saw serial Bubble bursts.
And 250,000 workers were hired by the US Census reducing unemployement. After a few months they were fired, and unemployement rebounded. Those jobs were not sustainable.
A Sustainable job creates value. Someone in a Market System values the job enough to pay cash consistently. It has purpose. It improves society. It Caters to the Market. And employers make a profit on workers enough to keep them employed and with health benefits etc.
Where are the Markets? The Biggest Market in the World is China and the developing world including India, Brazil Russia and Indonesia.
We cannot feed our families on the hollow illusions of Pretend Work/ Make Work Projects. The only long term economic hope for this country is to become an Export Economy. Using our hands and elbow grease. Doing difficult and hard work that others avoid. Becoming an entrepreneur and working 20 hour a day.
We have to sell products that the Chinese want to buy. We have to find our Niche in the Market and Exploit it. That is what a Sustainable job looks like. Everything else is a Kumbaya neck massage ( or government job).
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This has been the worst recession since the Great Depression. 14.5 million people are out of work. The latest stas is 1 in 5 are looking for work. Ben Bernanke, Fed Chair, indicated this recession has more Americans unemployed for more than 6 months, which he believes jeopardizes the long-term viability of the workforce and economy. And AARP says people 50+ take approximately three months longer than younger workers to get a job.
There's one person associated with the nonprofit I work for, Life by Design NW, who indicated he'd been laid off, his wife (a small business owner) has recently been diagnosed with cancer, and his unemployment benefits just ran out. It's not a pretty picture, and it sure isn't easy out there. Congress should extend unemployment benefits and I believe they should do so in lieu of the tax break they just gave me.
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I've been out of work for more than three years and was never even eligible for unemployment, since I left my last job in '07 to attend graduate school. That was after supporting my spouse in her medical career goals for the previous five years. She left a few months later and secretly cleaned out our bank account. In the wake of that, my grad school plans collapsed and I lost everything. I sent out hundreds of job applications during that time but got no responses. I became homeless.
I'm still homeless but sleeping on someone's sofa now for as long as that may last. I'm at another school living on student loans, not because I want another degree (I have 2 already) but so that I can eat, have something to do during the days, and stay alive. I don't worry about debt anymore since my credit is so ruined from medical debt that I will never recover from it. And I have no expectations of finding a job when I'm done, if I finish a degree at all. The jobs are just not out there anymore. Once I was unemployed more than about 3 or 4 months nobody would even consider me, even though I had a solid work history and got along well with everyone. So...I'll take as much student loan money as I can for as long as I can. I wish it was different, but it is what it is.
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Stop getting art degrees and you'll find work.
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DAP: My degrees are in political science/econ and psychology.
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Boy, what you said about my spelling and your degrees made me feel quite foolish! I should not have assumed anything about your degrees or lack of effort. Thank you for the wake up call. Fogive me for being such an ass..
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The current Conservative Republicans have the same "Let them eat cake" attitude that Marie Antoinette had just before the French People brought out the tumbrils and Monsieur Guillotines infamous machine.
There is a saying, "Where there is no hope, there is no fear". And one commenter on this thread has posted under the name "lost hope".
Professor Robert Reich, the former Sec of Labor under Clinton, has commented that he is worried about the increasing extremes of wealth and poverty in the US.
Frankly, I'm worried too, I don't know and I don't know if anybody does know, at what point things get so bad that the American people take drastic actions to try and bring things back into a more even balance.
And given that so many Americans have been militarized, even the National Guard and the Coast Guard being sent into combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, I have to wonder what all those people trained into street by street house by house combat would do, if they would fight for their families, friends, and neighbors who have been so hurt by this Conservative Republican caused Re-Depression, or fight against their families, friends, and neighbors and for the wealthy?
I hope that Conservatives come to their senses and go back to moderation, and stop their class warfare before they get too extreme.
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Conservative or liberal, we, the people should have the power. Instead, we're being led around by ultra elite billionares.
We've been convinced it's a party issue and it's devided our power as the people. Well played fat cats, well played..
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Comrade Tom,
You should use the eyes God gave you. Your class warfare incitements and remembrances of the French Revolution and the Guillotine are far, far off the mark. Wake up and smell the Frappachino.
Rather than predict the future, the terrorist attacks are CURRENT NEWS.
PDX Pioneer Square bomber Mohamed Osman Muhamed recent attack was less than a month ago. US Army Major Nidal Hassan executed 13 fellow soldiers at Ft Hood. Palestinian Swede Taimin Abdulwahab al Abdaly prematurely detonated his abdomen trying to delivery a Christmas present in Stockholm. The 7-7 London Bombing. The 3-11 Madrid Bombing. These were not class warfare, but international terrorism.
More people died in 9/11 than at Pearl Harbor. And the 9/11 victms were 95% civilian. And half were women.
And the if it comes to door-to-door urban assault like in Mumbai, like Nostradamus, I can predict what ethnic group or religion will be involved--and it ain't mormons.
Paranoids tend to manufacture enemies, and misassess real threats and have unfounded anxieties. Imagine during WWII, after Pearl Harbor, some lunatic claims that we must prepare for Martian Attack.
Yes our veterans will return and many will be affected by PTSD. But is it class warfare when they physically abuse their spouse...or just symptoms of depression.
For Self Preservation, be aware of REAL THREATS. And our mental illness afflictions cause imaginations to run amuck and frank psychosis.
If dozens of Portlanders die in a violent explosion downtown, it is likely not due to flying dragons spouting fire...but rather barbarians at the gate.
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Tom: You got that right. I seem to have lost almost all my fear now that I have nothing left to lose.
DAP: It's divided, not "devided." Being able to spell is one of the benefits of my "arts degree."
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Everyone I know who is on unemployment is NOT looking for work regularly. They simply jump through the hoops of, giving evidence of job searches and filled out applications. Who can blame them? A friend of mine is getting $500 a week to not work. Why would you want to work 40+ hours a week for a job that pays $700 a week, when you can just take a 2 year paid vacation? (at a minimal pay decrease, considering they're NOT working) I have to deliver Pizza to make ends meet. I am JELOUS of my friends who are on unemployment!
If times were actually rough for these folks they would take initiative and find ways to make money. Instead, they take the free ride for as long as possible and I DON'T blame them!
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DAP, your comments are revealing. those on unemployment should have a fast track to getting work, but the way thesystem works basically encourages them to fill out the forms and wait. If they seem not to be activly looking for work, it may be becasue of what they have had as results, See my posting for details
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Someone's ability to enjoy being on UI (Unemployment Insurance) largely depends on the amount they are earning. Many people earn much less than the mentioned $500 per week. For me it was about $200....so UI compensation is no picnic for most!
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DAP: Unemployment INSURANCE is something most people pay into while they are working, it's not just a giveaway program. Would you not submit an automobile claim if your car was in a serious wreck, or a health claim if you had to go to the hospital for medical treatment? It's insurance that people have already paid for.
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Plaguewatcher: YOUR comments are revealing! I hadn't thought of it in such a way. It is true that the friends I know who are on unemloyment, are no older than 32. I should not have made such a generalization. My dad (51 years old) has been unemployed for over a year now and it does seem like he is losing hope. (he is not on unemployment) I'm becoming more and more concerned about the older unemploed folks in our society, who are finding it difficult to get work. Thank you for your words.
bird: indeed $200 a week is no picnic. Although, I'll bet you wouldn't trade your $200 a week of unemployment for a job that gets you $200 a week. ie a minimum wage job with limited hours..
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The reason we work is because we have to be useful or we get physically and mentally sick. Think about it, when was the last time you felt good about not working, even if you had the dirtiest, worstest job in the history of the world? QED!
In modern terms, we do something, we get something called money and then spend it or save it, pay taxes (oops), and WE the people get to complete the circuit, so we can get to do what we do. Do, repeat, do let the experts fill in the blanks (you know they will) and on on and on and the world will go forward.
Here's the hitch, boys and girls: some of our experts are greedy, so they want to redistribute OUR wealth by eliminating their contribution to the circuit: that is called reducing taxes. If we, the squirrels stop scampering on the exercise wheels of wealth, then some of us get to work harder (yech) and some of us get to work less (weee).
My advice: if you want to be rich (I wish you well) work hard and keep working because eventually, some one may look around and find out you are taking a vacation in a tropical paradise shirking your duty to the commonwealth: oops!
Let's be good to each other.
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I feel much better not working. The brown bags under my eyes went away. I'm not staying awake nights trying to figure out the problems of work. I'm not working 90-100 weeks any more. My pay isn't stripped by taxes and hidden costs. I don't have to work with toxic people. What's not to like? The detail of not earning money is a little scary. But the worst day of unemployment is better than the best day at work. Sorry, just wanted to counter your statement.
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trurl9:
Is collecting benefits for a long, long time sustainable?
If people parasitize the system will it eventually go bankrupt?
I work and pay into the system. I would like to NOT work and get paid to read the newspaper, surf the net, drink coffee, talk with friends, up date my facebook and recreate.
We have to pay our own way and not just take. Anything else is irresponsible and unsustainable. We all have to live with fiscal responsibility. We have to eat. We have to deal with reality.
And it will end, sooner or later. What then?
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"unemployment benefits discourage people from working"?? NOT HARDLY. Considering that unemployment benefits do not even cover rent and food in the same week (not to mention gas to get to interviews or even the unemployment office to use the computers because you don't have enough money to pay internet subscription for job hunting at home, and car insurance - in Oregon tantamount to extortion levels). The study quoted was slanted and grabbed a statistical anomaly to prove the pre-determined outcome. You know what that is? The GREAT AMERICAN PASTIME which is not baseball it is VICTIM BLAMING. Another great American pastime is spin control (and did you all know that there is a degree program in Oregon's underfunded higher education institutions called "strategic communication"? Yeah - that would be spin control!). When unemployment benefits expire or are removed from the recipient by some really questionable tactics by the state, the UI benefits person no longer figures into the "unemployment rate" which majikally majically "goes down." Hmmmm. Let's review: to get unemployment benefits in Oregon you have to jump through so many hoops AND you are treated with such incredible patronizing disrespect, those hoops require you appear at dozens of unproductive virtually useless "meetings" taught by incredibly disrespectful snotty people who are drawing state salaries, thereby spending ever more gas money out of that itsy bitsy unemployment check. Okay - what's so golden about all of this? Who LIKES to go to the food bank? Who LIKES to be treated like a semi-competent five-year-old by an employed snarky twenty-something know-it-all for the sake of a few dollars? I don't know of many who do. Do you??? And - oh yeah - I AM EMPLOYED. Underemployed with an abusively bullying superior. I dare NOT leave this job because I am well over 50 and unemployment in my age group is in the 30 percent plus range. I was unemployed only four months before being offered this hell-on-earth-for-pay position but you know what? The behavior toward me and others in my age group by the unbelievably smug (and stupid!) state employment folks was almost as much motivation to take anything that was offered. Almost as much as wanting to keep my tiny rental and feed myself.
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Well said, Sally. Quite aside from the (yawn) blaming of liberals versus conversatives, or statistics recitations, or conceptual comments in this thread, this description of life in the trenches is the reality for many folks, even before the great economic unwinding, but especially now. There has always been age discrimination but in this digital connectivity age, many (not all) of the ever-younger, with their collective narcissism and sense of entitlement, visit this snarkiness on the more wise, experienced (and older) members of our society. Age discrimination just increases the hiring problems now.
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I have never seriously sought Unemployment Compensation. A brief look at what is required to qualify shows that one must have a very narrow set of conditions before you even qualify.
Being out of work for a YEAR, has been a wake up call. Hearing about those that have "given up" on the job hunt made me mad, until I too went through the process of filling out the forms, adjusting the resume, and often hearing nothing back, nothing! Not we don't need you, not thanks for applying, just nothing.
it was worse when I got an interview. As soon as it is seen that I am 52, the interviewers, usually under 35, get kinda of nervous, I know too much about the work? They can't relate to a Geezer as a co worker?
I persevere, but am discouraged. If it weren't for tiny bits of work I get as an independent, I would not have the money to ride transit to find work. I understand those that have lost hope. they are not Lazy, they are just defeated. If it were not for the kindness of my Friends to let me barter my housing, I would not have a place to stay
Over the last 30 years we have watched while Big Corporate interests have sent our jobs overseas, and we don't count as "jobless" those that do file for unemployment. 10 percent? I imagine the true number is much bigger.
Finally Our hope is to do business with each other, not with the global Corporate system. Pay more for what quality, and buy it from your neighbors. Instead of more of everything at the cheapest price, find out what is made here, and buy that instead.
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Think it's just a coincidence that while *official unemployment* is at 9.8% -- really it's up around 20%, but we even stack the deck in measuring it -- corporate profits are way up, and luxury goods sales are also way up? It's as though the rich are squeezing to poor and working poor to death.
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Well DAP if the "everyone" you know who is on unemployment is "not looking for work" then I'm guessing based on the tone and interesting spelling and grammar in your post that the "everyone" is on your level. It is also very interesting that the last time I checked with the State of Oregon, even the top UI level does not approach the dollar figure you so confidently quoted. There's a disconnect there that undercuts your point considerably.
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Sorry, I didn't realize $496 a week was not "approaching" $500. Thank you for calling me a liar.
Gimme a break about my spelling, meanie..
It's funny to see you write about "incredibly disrespectful snotty people" Haha! Sure is easy not to judge yourself.. hmmm?
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In 2000 I spent a year looking for work. I took courses with valuable savings to become more attractive to potential employers. I sent out hundreds of resumes and got three interviews and finally a job offer commensurate with my skills. Problem was the job was just like the job I'd burned out on so I changed course.
I heard from one interview that the employer thought I was too well coached. That I couldn't have done enough research to know about the job and the company on my own to demonstrate what kind of employee I would be.
My last employer told me they no longer wanted to pay me what I was worth and offered me a 38 percent pay cut. I quit because I couldn't maintain my house, apartment and pared back lifestyle on the lower wage.
Then every time I try to get work I get grilled about the gaps of time in my resume where I've taken years off from work to do other things with my life. I always figured employers who were going to nit pick about such details were looking for a drone, not a human.
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We have a large manufacturing firm in our community. According to their manager, around 60% of the people who get to the job offer stage are unable to be hired because they fail a drug test. No kidding. But the employer can't report this to the unemployment office, so those who are on UI keep collecting benefits.
Now I am all for UI for those who are truly looking for work, but employers should be able to report if someone is making themselves ineligible for work of their own accord.
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Question: The employers pay for the first 26 weeks of unemployment. With the federal extension, do the employers continue to pay? Or is that government funded?
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Avidlearner
Employers pay into UI with money that was created by workers doing work. If workers did not work there would be no money to pay in.
The legal definition is that employers pay in, but the reality is that the workers created that money by their work.
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Age discrimination is rampant and widely acknowledged. Most 99ers are over age 50. Helping the long-term unemployed is to lobby for and pass a stronger, national age discrimination law.
Please ask your guests to comment on age discrimination.
At Work Source Centers we are advised to conceal our age on our resumes. -
I've been unemployed for 137 weeks (as of this Wednesday), and I am confident that I have been subjected to Age Discrimination, and I'm 'only' 46.
I do not put dates on things like my HS Graduation, but putting time frames on employments is a necessary evil, to show experience. (And plenty of employers can add those up!)
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I am 55. I quit my job in 2008 and went back to school just before the market tanked. I finished my program last May, and got my degree, but have not been able to find a job.
Do benefits become available for someone like me after some period of time?
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Good discussion topic: What are the impacts of the digital/internet transformation on the long-term unemployed seeking a job?
One impact I suspect is that employers are able to cast their net across state borders, and they don't have to hire a candidate who doesn't perfectly meet all qualifications.
Also, the method of applying for work has changed. Employers do not welcome the traditional drop-ins, where you make face-to-face introduction and leave your resume. Now, employers want you to use fax or email. Then you wait, and usually receive the sound of silence. This is very impersonal and more demoralizing than earlier times.
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Yeah, and when you submit your application (or resume) on-line, the only response you can hope for is an automated acknowlegement that your resume or application was received. I have gotten this numerous times.
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THis joker who says "if you work hard anything is possible" is WAY OFF THE MARK! I have worked hard from the time I was in 10th grade (Fall 1979) until May of 2008, and what has it gotten me? NOTHING! WHAT A CROCK!
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Once you have been unemployed for a year or more, it is widely said that employers won't even consider hiring you. Work Source tells you to have no "employment gaps" in your resume. What is an unemployed job seeker supposed to do??
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I noted the guest who mentioned how frustrating it is for people to not be able to land jobs because their potential employers say they are "overqualified". When asked by the host to explain what that actually meant in his case, the gentleman said he was actually told during an interview, "We don't want to hire you because your experience makes you too valuable. You will seek work elsewhere as soon as the economy turns around and we don't want to invest time and energy into you."
So in other words, a Catch-22 here. One has to be just smart enough to be interesting to an employer, but not smart enough (in that potential employer's judgment) to be interesting to anyone else. How does anyone walk that tightrope? It's ridiculous. Employers should *value* the broad experience and knowledge of intelligent and/or skilled potential employees. The fact that such prospective employees might eventually seek work elsewhere is no different in the future as it was in the past. And many employers, for the most part, offer zero loyalty to employees, so it's patently unfair in this economy to be filtering for employee loyalty now in their hiring processes. -
Suggestion for a show topic: Let's Get Organized!
"There are only three things you can do with a piece of paper: Act on it, File it, or Throw it away......"
It's a perfect time to Get Guilty about being disorganized, or maybe Think Out Loud could help us get our lives in order. In the next month, year end financial reports, tax receipts and other Important Pieces of Paper will be filling our mailboxes. What do we do with them?
I think you should have a tax advisor, accountant, financial planner, and some Very Organized Person on the show to sift through the deluge of paper and make sense of our lives.
For instance, I have been paralyzed by the financial crisis of 2008 and have my retirement funds, meager as they are, earning very little interest. What should I do?
I do this on the first of the year: Photocopy all of the cards in my wallet, front and back, so I have someone to call if I lose my wallet. Do other people have good ideas to share?
Do I have enough insurance? Where are the policy numbers in case I die?
Do I have a Care Directive and Power of Attorney assigned in case I am incapacitated?
Are people aware of the tax credits available for Long Term Care Insurance?
I think there is plenty of fodder for a lively discussion on this topic. I could certainly use the advice myself.
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Comments are now closed.
The Great Recession which began in 2008 is DIFFERENT. Whereas in most other recessions, the downturn was brief and jobs came roaring back within 2 years. And the Economy came back stronger and more vigorous than before. And then there were even labor shortages and salary escalations to keep the most desired workers.
Now we are two years into this Recession and the trajectory continues to worsen. Employers realize this first, and now some of the worker class are beginning to have an inkling. Salaries are shrinking, homes foreclosed, investments tanking, credit tight and lifestyles downsized.
The end of this year will see the 99ers exceeding their 2 year unemployment benefits. It had been subsequently extended in a last minute compromise. But How Long should Uemployment Benefits Continue? 3 Years? 4 Years? 5 Years? A Decade? 20 Years?
Ideally it should be as long as possible but any such program is UNSUSTAINABLE and will bankrupt the system. ie. paid to NOT work for a lifetime.
HOW LONG SHOULD AN UNEMPLOYEMENT BENEFIT LAST? Up until this recessesion, most states provided less than 6 months. But 6 Years is too long.
Should an unemployed person wait for Mr. Right when they can SETTLE for Mr. RightNow? I think in challenging times, flexibility is essential. And even menial jobs, Walmart jobs or fast food jobs must be entertained.