2012 conventions 2012 election 2013 session arts arts and culture author ballot measures basketball bomb books boy scouts budget bullying business charlie hales children clackamas climate change coal college courts crime culture culture club democrats drugs economy education environment family film fluoride food gay rights guns handguns health health care health insurance high school history housing immigration internet kitzhaber law legislature lgbt literary arts living marijuana marriage media medicine mental health military minor parties mohamed mohamud movies music native americans news newspaper obama olympics oregon our town parenting pers photography police politcs politics port portland portland business journal president prevention public safety religion republicans rnc romney rural salem sam adams sandy hook schools science shooting sports suicide supreme court taxes technology television terrorism theater third parties transportation union university of oregon washington wildfire women

Here is an early version of the NTC's declaration:  http://feb17.info/general/translation-of-declaration-of-the-establishment-of-national-transitional-temporary-council-in-libya/

One of the first defectors was Younis, former minister of the Interior, and I believe he is a higher-up in the NTC.  I recall hearing guidelines about how all tribes or districts had to be equally represented, as did the Libyan Youth.

One reason we don't know much about the members of the NTC is the western media's insane continuation of interviews with Gaddafi family members. News segments seemed purposely to give a slanted view. The UNBELIEVABLY pathological liar Saif Gaddafi was shown as civilized, clean, respectable.  All footage of Libyan civilians, by contrast, was limited to scenes like masses trying to leave the country, and the messiness created by such situations. Christine Amanpour has a lot to answer for.

That you call the Libyans "rabble" shows that the corporate media accomplished its aims... and turns my stomach. Do you recall learning something about how the American forces were clothed in rags but still won against the highly-organized Redcoats? 

The idea that Libyans don't have what it takes to define and create their own future is propaganda put out by who? - "the biggest and most aggressive military in history." Don't buy into it, for god's sake!

posted 2 years, 2 months ago
view in context

I never dreamed I would say this but twitter has proven itself an invaluable tool. Libyans on the ground gave us information that the media didn't pick up for hours, days, sometimes not at all.

For ex, Libyan State TV, airing Gaddafi's ridiculous blatant lies, was the ONLY source using the term "civil war." The Revolutionaries stated MANY tiimes: NO! it is Libyans ag. Gaddafi and his mostly-mercenary forces.

Libyans are exceptionally kind, loving people. If you haven't been there or somewhere like it, you maybe just don't get it that many cultures are light-years ahead of western societies in that regard. To speak of the "Rebels slaughtering Gaddafi loyalists" exposes a severe lack of awareness of actual circumstances.  An informal YT video of captured Gaddafi forces shows them being treated like guests (while captured Rebels were being tortured by G.) A photo (CNN?) shows one Revolutionary shielding, with his own body, caputured Gaddafi troops from an apparently trigger-happy Free Libyan - just in case. It is unbelievable how out-of-touch corporate media, and those who depend on it, are from the actual humanity of the situation.

The NTC and Free Libyans, from late Feb, were calling/begging for a no-fly zone because Gaddafi was bombing peaceful protests, and bringing in planeloads of mercenaries. The NTC specified, NO ground troops. When UK sneaked in MI-6, NTC captured & politely sent them home.

The tiresome argument "we shouldn't be in Libya because why then aren't we in Burma, Bahrain, etc etc" makes no sense.  YES, the US is in Libya for the wrong reasons. Yes, we SHOULD help ALL victims of genocidal dictators. Yes, we should STOP supporting such dictators. OK? 

Let's agree: it IS unconstitutional (but if you think Congress would have said "no" to increased lucrative war, I think you are deluded); it IS for imperialist control of the region, not humanitarian reasons; it IS likely to backfire - Mullen and Petraeus were already, within HOURS of beginning shelling, saying "oops - looks like this could take a VERY LONG time!"; and yes, the way to peace is not via war.

Given those truths, now, what MIGHT success in Libya look like? A miraculous change in WESTERN motivation, I fear.  If we could take out Gaddafi & cronies, I do believe there is enough goodness in Libyan hearts to create a peaceful egalitarian society. Fully half the population is under 16; right there is a huge force for change.

Seven7's comment is incredibly insightful and much appreciated.  What I might add is: widespread awareness among Arabs of what actually has happened to western Democracies, of the insidious subtleties of banksters' & corporations' propaganda, warmongering, and social engineering. And, therefore, I would love to see some other term replace "democracy" in their amazing overturning of the status quo.

posted 2 years, 2 months ago
view in context