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cdanaj's comments:
on Hurrah for the Red, White and Blue
It's too bad we don't have civics courses anymore in high school. They seem to have been replaced by 'cynics' courses, where it's cool to dismiss things after only superficial consideration.
Grand statements like 'Patriotism is bad', 'Patriotism is good', 'Religion is bad', 'Religion is good', 'Government is bad', or 'Government is good' don't really teach us anything about a person's views on patriotism, religion, or government. Such statements certainly don't teach us anything about the topics themselves. What we do learn about from such statements is the speaker's inability or unwillingness to understand the complexities and proven historical importance of these topics.
Grand statements like 'Patriotism is bad', 'Patriotism is good', 'Religion is bad', 'Religion is good', 'Government is bad', or 'Government is good' don't really teach us anything about a person's views on patriotism, religion, or government. Such statements certainly don't teach us anything about the topics themselves. What we do learn about from such statements is the speaker's inability or unwillingness to understand the complexities and proven historical importance of these topics.
posted 4 years, 11 months ago
view in context
on Hurrah for the Red, White and Blue
Patriotism, at its best, emotionally ties together an arbitrary group of people who have nothing more in common than geography. These sorts of ties are essential to establishing common cause and a basis for rational government. At its worst, it gives people who are prone to feeling superior to other human beings one more reason to feel superior. People like that suck, but in their case, patriotism isn't the cause of their self-proclaimed superiority, it is a symptom.
I do feel 'patriotic' - I feel a sense of pride in being American. My sense of pride is founded on ideals that I hold to. I consider these ideals to be profoundly American. There are plenty of prominent Americans who I consider to be in embarrassing and flagrant violation of these ideals. I consider these ideals to be noble, and I hold them in my mind as the promise of what America has the potential to be.
These ideals include (for me):
1. The opportunity for citizens to rise from relative obscurity to positions of great importance in our government and communities.
2. The emphasis on freedom of expression, and the freedom to follow your dreams as long as no one gets hurt, or, at the very least, the only person you hurt is yourself.
3. A built-in voice given to the people (voting) and a system that promotes the citizenry being involved in the government. There are all sorts of organizations citizens can take part in to add their voice to the decisions that governments make.
I expect that these are not the things that everyone values in America. I am aware, too, that although these ideals have been achieved to some extent, there are times and places where we have fallen pathetically short. Everything - EVERYTHING - in our society, in every society world wide, is run by people, and people constantly mess up. There will never be a perfect system. The best you can do is have a system that is structured on, and strives for, noble goals.
We have a system of government that is designed to keep itself steered toward these ideals, despite the selfish interests of any one individual. This system has been remarkably robust, and is worth defending, both at home and abroad.
America is not unique in its ability to provide essential freedom and a feeling of relative safety and fairness to its citizens, but the countries in the world who provide these essentials of stable society are in the minority. I expect this to be a somewhat controversial comment, because there are a lot of people who feel, for one reason or another, that we don't have essential freedoms, and that American society is neither safe nor fair. I do not mean to claim that the American reality is perfect, but the measure of freedom, safety, and fairness is relative. If we compare our system to the systems of all other governments worldwide, we'll find that our system currently delivers more opportunities to more people of varying backgrounds than most (not all, but most) other governments around the world. Considering what a large and diverse country America is, it is amazing that things are as stable as they are domestically.
American patriotism, to me, is a courageous stand for the 'life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness' of every individual. We started with a system that is founded on these ideals, so I believe we have a better chance of some day getting it right than almost any other country on the planet.
I do feel 'patriotic' - I feel a sense of pride in being American. My sense of pride is founded on ideals that I hold to. I consider these ideals to be profoundly American. There are plenty of prominent Americans who I consider to be in embarrassing and flagrant violation of these ideals. I consider these ideals to be noble, and I hold them in my mind as the promise of what America has the potential to be.
These ideals include (for me):
1. The opportunity for citizens to rise from relative obscurity to positions of great importance in our government and communities.
2. The emphasis on freedom of expression, and the freedom to follow your dreams as long as no one gets hurt, or, at the very least, the only person you hurt is yourself.
3. A built-in voice given to the people (voting) and a system that promotes the citizenry being involved in the government. There are all sorts of organizations citizens can take part in to add their voice to the decisions that governments make.
I expect that these are not the things that everyone values in America. I am aware, too, that although these ideals have been achieved to some extent, there are times and places where we have fallen pathetically short. Everything - EVERYTHING - in our society, in every society world wide, is run by people, and people constantly mess up. There will never be a perfect system. The best you can do is have a system that is structured on, and strives for, noble goals.
We have a system of government that is designed to keep itself steered toward these ideals, despite the selfish interests of any one individual. This system has been remarkably robust, and is worth defending, both at home and abroad.
America is not unique in its ability to provide essential freedom and a feeling of relative safety and fairness to its citizens, but the countries in the world who provide these essentials of stable society are in the minority. I expect this to be a somewhat controversial comment, because there are a lot of people who feel, for one reason or another, that we don't have essential freedoms, and that American society is neither safe nor fair. I do not mean to claim that the American reality is perfect, but the measure of freedom, safety, and fairness is relative. If we compare our system to the systems of all other governments worldwide, we'll find that our system currently delivers more opportunities to more people of varying backgrounds than most (not all, but most) other governments around the world. Considering what a large and diverse country America is, it is amazing that things are as stable as they are domestically.
American patriotism, to me, is a courageous stand for the 'life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness' of every individual. We started with a system that is founded on these ideals, so I believe we have a better chance of some day getting it right than almost any other country on the planet.
posted 4 years, 11 months ago
view in context
on TAG, You're It!
Thanks, asdfasdf, Eganite, and Kathrynann for replying to my post.
I just listened to the radio program, and I thought it was an excellent discussion.
It's been decades ago, but when I was in grade school I tested into the programs for "gifted" students in all subjects. I was given lots of extra challenges in school and at home. I was made to feel very special, being up there in the top 3% of achievers.
I still took a lot of regular classes, and I was bored in many of them, although I was typically pretty well behaved. At a teacher/parent conference, one of my teachers expressed frustration that I was always daydreaming, usually looking out the window - which was not so bad, except that every time the teacher tried to 'catch me out' by calling on me, I would give the right answer, and never stop looking out the window.
I was in all of the advanced classes in high school, and I finally was given a challenging history paper to write, and I was stumped. This project, and other course work that year, required me to apply myself and study independently. I had no studying skills, because studying was not something I had had to do previously. I was doing sports, music, and drama. There were days I was at school from 7:30 in the morning until 11:00 at night. I was completely at sea trying to complete work that actually required concerted effort and concentrated study time. My whole schedule, attitude, everything, fell apart, and I became very depressed and dropped out.
This was the middle of my junior year. I had completed enough course work at that point that I only needed three more classes from a junior college to be eligible for a four year university. I took those classes, over the next three years, got an undergraduate degree, and then a masters.
It would seem that I am making a case for making sure that gifted children are always intellectually challenged in school, but I'm not going to. I liked the advanced classes I was given, and I would hope that any intellectually gifted child would have the opportunities that I did. I want to see the schools trying their best to address the issue, but when resources are limited (as they always are and always will be), I would still prefer to see the lower achievers getting their help first.
I think there was something else missing from my education, in the big picture, which is this: I never really learned the value of hard work. I was told I was exceptional and intelligent, and that was reinforced by my parents and the system in both actions and deeds. It gave me a false sense that things would fall into my lap. I have had to learn over the years that the solution to some problems - even many problems - is just mind numbing hard work. There are intelligent ways to deal with hard work, but sometimes that is simply what is required.
Additionally, as a "gifted" student, I was in the top 3% of academic achievers. That's great, but there's still 97% of the world out there that you're going to be dealing with for the rest of your life. It is REALLY, REALLY important that one not develop a sense of superiority based on academic prowess. There is a lot more to getting along in the world once your primary educational path is complete than academic prowess (unless your career is in academia!).
I feel that both of these things - learning the value of hard work, and understanding that everyone has value (even if there isn't a standardized test for honesty and integrity) are things that come from parents. Everyone's different, and everyone has skills to bring to the classroom to make the classroom a richer place for everyone to learn.
As you might guess from this post. I have sympathy for bored yet gifted students. I still feel that parents have a tremendous role to play in teaching their kids how to deal with difficult situations - are you bored? are you angry? are you scared? What are your problems? What can we do, right now, to change things and help you feel better about it? Sometimes, a good solution can be found. I think it is important, too, that sometimes the answer is "Look, I know this is tough for you, but after everything we've talked about, it looks like your best option is to knuckle down and get through it, and here are some strategies to help you. This won't last forever."
I also believe that the schools can change a few things to address this better. Personally, I liked the discussion about grouping students at least partially based on their ability instead of strictly on age. It seems this would have the added advantage, as time goes on, of building relationships among students that cross all sorts of age and social boundaries, giving the students a much stronger sense of community along the way.
Great discussion! Very interesting.
I just listened to the radio program, and I thought it was an excellent discussion.
It's been decades ago, but when I was in grade school I tested into the programs for "gifted" students in all subjects. I was given lots of extra challenges in school and at home. I was made to feel very special, being up there in the top 3% of achievers.
I still took a lot of regular classes, and I was bored in many of them, although I was typically pretty well behaved. At a teacher/parent conference, one of my teachers expressed frustration that I was always daydreaming, usually looking out the window - which was not so bad, except that every time the teacher tried to 'catch me out' by calling on me, I would give the right answer, and never stop looking out the window.
I was in all of the advanced classes in high school, and I finally was given a challenging history paper to write, and I was stumped. This project, and other course work that year, required me to apply myself and study independently. I had no studying skills, because studying was not something I had had to do previously. I was doing sports, music, and drama. There were days I was at school from 7:30 in the morning until 11:00 at night. I was completely at sea trying to complete work that actually required concerted effort and concentrated study time. My whole schedule, attitude, everything, fell apart, and I became very depressed and dropped out.
This was the middle of my junior year. I had completed enough course work at that point that I only needed three more classes from a junior college to be eligible for a four year university. I took those classes, over the next three years, got an undergraduate degree, and then a masters.
It would seem that I am making a case for making sure that gifted children are always intellectually challenged in school, but I'm not going to. I liked the advanced classes I was given, and I would hope that any intellectually gifted child would have the opportunities that I did. I want to see the schools trying their best to address the issue, but when resources are limited (as they always are and always will be), I would still prefer to see the lower achievers getting their help first.
I think there was something else missing from my education, in the big picture, which is this: I never really learned the value of hard work. I was told I was exceptional and intelligent, and that was reinforced by my parents and the system in both actions and deeds. It gave me a false sense that things would fall into my lap. I have had to learn over the years that the solution to some problems - even many problems - is just mind numbing hard work. There are intelligent ways to deal with hard work, but sometimes that is simply what is required.
Additionally, as a "gifted" student, I was in the top 3% of academic achievers. That's great, but there's still 97% of the world out there that you're going to be dealing with for the rest of your life. It is REALLY, REALLY important that one not develop a sense of superiority based on academic prowess. There is a lot more to getting along in the world once your primary educational path is complete than academic prowess (unless your career is in academia!).
I feel that both of these things - learning the value of hard work, and understanding that everyone has value (even if there isn't a standardized test for honesty and integrity) are things that come from parents. Everyone's different, and everyone has skills to bring to the classroom to make the classroom a richer place for everyone to learn.
As you might guess from this post. I have sympathy for bored yet gifted students. I still feel that parents have a tremendous role to play in teaching their kids how to deal with difficult situations - are you bored? are you angry? are you scared? What are your problems? What can we do, right now, to change things and help you feel better about it? Sometimes, a good solution can be found. I think it is important, too, that sometimes the answer is "Look, I know this is tough for you, but after everything we've talked about, it looks like your best option is to knuckle down and get through it, and here are some strategies to help you. This won't last forever."
I also believe that the schools can change a few things to address this better. Personally, I liked the discussion about grouping students at least partially based on their ability instead of strictly on age. It seems this would have the added advantage, as time goes on, of building relationships among students that cross all sorts of age and social boundaries, giving the students a much stronger sense of community along the way.
Great discussion! Very interesting.
posted 5 years, 3 months ago
view in context
on TAG, You're It!
I have kids working their way through the Portland Public Schools right now. One of them is almost certainly TAG material - he is clearly at the top of his class. However, we don't dwell on the fact that he is so capable at home, and he gets along great in school. His teacher loves him, and school is as much, if not more, about learning social skills as it is about learning reading, writing, and arithmetic.
There are some truly exceptional kids out there, but I believe there is a large contingent of kids in TAG as a result of their parents driven and over developed sense of entitlement. There is only so much schools can do. It is not the job of the schools to raise our kids. Does your child need special challenges? You as a parent should be working to find them extra-curricular challenges to meet their needs. It would be great if we could have public schools that met the custom needs of every enrolled student perfectly. That's not going to happen. Part of growing up is learning to work effectively within the system you've got.
I think having the TAG program is great - having some extra challenges for some kids is fine. However, No one should be expecting that any school is going to meet every educational need of their child. The parent is the primary educator.
Kids from less fortunate backgrounds and with less going for them need more resources in a society that judges its worth by the fate of least well off member. If you are lucky enough to have a talented or gifted child, you as a parent should engage with them to enrich their lives. Don't put that on the already overburdened public school system.
There are some truly exceptional kids out there, but I believe there is a large contingent of kids in TAG as a result of their parents driven and over developed sense of entitlement. There is only so much schools can do. It is not the job of the schools to raise our kids. Does your child need special challenges? You as a parent should be working to find them extra-curricular challenges to meet their needs. It would be great if we could have public schools that met the custom needs of every enrolled student perfectly. That's not going to happen. Part of growing up is learning to work effectively within the system you've got.
I think having the TAG program is great - having some extra challenges for some kids is fine. However, No one should be expecting that any school is going to meet every educational need of their child. The parent is the primary educator.
Kids from less fortunate backgrounds and with less going for them need more resources in a society that judges its worth by the fate of least well off member. If you are lucky enough to have a talented or gifted child, you as a parent should engage with them to enrich their lives. Don't put that on the already overburdened public school system.
posted 5 years, 3 months ago
view in context
