Bobbie Scopa lost a lot when she transitioned. Her family abandoned her. Her marriage crumbled. At least one of her kids rarely speaks to her anymore.
What she didn’t lose was her career.
Bobbie Scopa on duty with vehicle, and the cover of her new book, "Both Sides of the Fire Line: Memoir of a Transgender Firefighter."
Courtesy of Bobbie Scopa
It may seem counterintuitive, but Scopa became more accepted as a wildland firefighter after she transitioned.
“I think the workforce is much more willing to accept a competent, capable, tough female in their ranks,” Scopa says. “Much more so than they would be someone who they don’t think is a very masculine male.”
The National Institutes of Health says there are higher levels of suicide ideation and suicide attempts among people with gender dysphoria. Scopa says her decision to transition was a lifesaver.
“For me, it was either transition or I was going to end my life,” she says. “I would not have survived.”
Scopa is the author of “Both Sides of the Fire Line: Memoir of a Transgender Firefighter,” and spent 45 years as a firefighter, including seven years as assistant fire director for all wildland fire operations in Oregon for the U.S. Forest Service. She spoke with OPB “All Things Considered” host Geoff Norcross:
Bobbie Scopa is a transgender woman and a retired firefighter. She says she found greater acceptance in the firefighting community after she transitioned.
Courtesy Bobbie Scopa / Bobbie Scopa
Geoff Norcross: “Why do you think people in that world were so much more accepting of you after you transitioned?”
Bobbie Scopa: “Well, it’s a complicated situation. First off, I don’t know how many people knew I had transitioned. Some people did. Some people didn’t. It didn’t get talked about. But I believe that if you’re perceived as a male who’s not particularly masculine and you’re in a macho work environment, I think the workforce is much more willing to accept a competent, capable, tough female in their ranks. Much more so than they would be someone who they don’t think is a very masculine male. And I think that contributes to why I did well after I transitioned.”
Norcross: “You mentioned that you worked with some people who knew you before and after. How did they relate to you?”
Scopa: “I would say on the whole, not well. There are a few firefighter friends that I still have from many years ago when I first started out. But many of my close friends and acquaintances that I worked with before I transitioned — and that’s been, you know, 25 years or more ago — most of them didn’t want to have much to do with me. I think it’s a difficult prospect for people to accept. And especially guys, I think they find it much more … it’s very hard for them, and I understand that. But the folks that I worked with after my transition, I never had any trouble. I never had any issues. Everything was great. They saw me as the leader. And that’s all I wanted them to see: a good, strong, competent leader.”
Norcross: “If you hadn’t made this very difficult decision, if you hadn’t transitioned, what do you think would have happened to you?”
Scopa: “Oh, I have no doubt that I would not have survived. You know, when you struggle with something since you’ve been three or four years old, and at 40 you’re struggling to hang on. For me, it was either transition or I was going to end my life. That’s the facts of it. And it’s kind of sad because lots and lots of people go through that. But for me, that’s how I know I would have ended up. I would not have continued my life.”
Norcross: “You fought fires for over 40 years. What was your favorite part of being a firefighter?”
Scopa: “You know, the people. The people are the favorite part. Whether it’s the folks you’re working with or when you’re dealing with a subdivision that you’re trying to protect from a large fire coming in and you’re dealing with some of those folks. I’m a people person and the best part of the job was the people. That said, I thrived in that high-stress, fast-paced environment of firefighting and I loved it. And in that environment, dealing with the people and bringing people along and coaching and mentoring and helping folks … that’s what made it all worthwhile. And I’m still doing it. I’m still speaking and trying to help folks become better leaders.”
Norcross: “You wrote this book after you were retired. Why did you wait until then?”
Scopa: “Well, I didn’t want to confuse the situation I was in. I‘m working and I’m responsible for thousands of people. And if I would have written this book and started talking about being transgender while I was still working, my ability to influence would have been compromised. Because the focus would have become ‘Bobbie, the transgender fire chief’ or ‘Bobbie, the transgender fire management officer,’ rather than ‘Bobbie, the competent, strong good leader.’ And I absolutely did not want to sacrifice my ability to do my job for this desire to try to open people’s minds a little bit. So that’s why I waited.”
Norcross: “So for anyone who is on the fireline right now who might be struggling with the questions that you did about their gender and who they are, would it be easier for them to make that decision now? What’s the culture like?”
Scopa: “I believe it is easier for them now. For half my life, I don’t know if I even knew the word transgender. It’s so much more in the open now than it was. I hope it’s easier for folks to get some counseling and get some professional help. I have so many people comment to me that they’re so surprised that I’m still Christian or that I still go to church. And I kind of laugh and think, well, that has nothing like being transgender, doesn’t have anything to do with any of my faith. But it’s the same idea. People have these ideas about what they think being transgender is about. And so I hope my book opens minds to say, well, here’s someone who had a successful career, lots of friends, had a good life, and they were transgender. Wow!”
Click on the audio player above to hear the whole conversation.
Related: Former firefighter, a trans woman, reflects on adventurous and challenging career