FILE - Tobias Read speaks at the Democratic election night party held at the Hilton in Portland, Ore., Nov. 5, 2024.
Brooke Herbert / OPB
Earlier this week, President Donald Trump said he’s working on an executive order to end mail-in ballots and voting machines across the country. The administration cites corruption as the leading cause for action despite there being no evidence of widespread voter fraud from voting by mail. Oregon Secretary of State Tobias Read joins us to share his response and efforts to protect Oregon’s vote-by-mail system for elections.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Earlier this week, President Trump said he’s going to release an executive order to abolish mail-in ballots and the use of some vote tabulating machines across the country. He cited massive voter fraud as the reason, despite the fact that there is no evidence that vote-by-mail systems lead to widespread fraud.
Oregon Secretary of State Tobias Read joins us now to talk about this. Good to have you back on the show.
Tobias Read: Thanks, Dave. Glad to be here.
Miller: In his message on Truth Social, the president wrote this: “The states are merely an agent for the federal government in counting and tabulating the votes. They must do what the federal government, as represented by the President of the United States, tells them.” What does the Constitution say about this?
Read: It’s funny you ask that question because he apparently has forgotten what the Constitution says, despite the fact that he swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. It is very clear in saying that states determine how elections are run. Congress can weigh in, but they do that through law, not through an executive order. So I think it’s particularly worrisome that apparently the president is now taking advice on how to run elections from Vladimir Putin. Despite what Putin apparently whispered in the president’s ear, it is very clear that our vote-by-mail systems are secure and accurate. Fraud is extremely rare. It’s never changed the outcome of an election.
And if the president knew anything or cared about the American people, he would know that mail-in votes are the best way to protect people’s right to vote. I think that’s very true, especially true for people who live in rural parts of the state, for people who are elderly, and think about people who are working an hourly job. They should not have to lose money from their job in order to vote. Mail-in voting meets citizens exactly where they are, in their kitchens, around their table, in their living rooms, and that’s why it matters. That’s why in Oregon we’ve been doing this for 25 years and why we’re proud of our high turnout, our low cost, our high security, why we are a gold standard when it comes to how to conduct elections that allow people to hold politicians accountable.
Miller: You mentioned the role that Congress could play here, and I want to come back to that. But there are also coercive levers of power that the president has shown he’s very willing to use, and in over the last seven months or so has been very effective at using in terms of dealing with law firms, universities, local law enforcement agencies or private corporations. What levers do you see that he has specifically to try to coerce states to change their own voting laws or practices?
Read: The president can say a lot of things, but he cannot change the Constitution, and the Constitution is very clear. That’s where we started. And in fact, when the president put forward an executive order in the same general area several months ago, we chose to sue, with the state of Washington. A number of other states have sued in other venues as well.
Miller: So can you remind us … that’s still an outstanding issue related to voting.
Read: Right.
Miller: But not about voting machines. So, what’s the issue there and where does that stand?
Read: Well, the issue there is that, again, he is exceeding his authority. The Constitution says states run elections, not the president by executive order. So in that sense it is the same issue, and we will make that same case, because Oregonians value our freedom. We get to choose how we vote. And we’ve done this because it allows more people, more eligible people to continue to participate, and we’re a stronger state when people do that. We’re going to defend our rights, and we won’t back down on that front.
Miller: The president didn’t just rail against vote-by-mail. He also mentioned, quote, “very expensive and seriously controversial voting machines.” Voting machines were some of the words that he chose to put in all caps. Don’t most states, red and blue, use some kind of vote counting machines at this point?
Read: Well, as usual, he’s making a vague statement. That depends on the state. We are in good shape in Oregon because we use paper ballots which are verified by signatures, which are checked by election boards, two people of different parties to make sure that the voters’ intent is accurately recorded. The only machines we use are the tabulation machines that count those ballots, but it’s unclear, as it often is, to what he is referring.
Miller: What are you expecting in an executive order, assuming that one even comes?
Read: Well, the president is not in the business of asking for advice from me, so I can’t really speak to that. But what I can say is that we feel very strongly about the way we run elections in Oregon. They’re run by county clerks, 36 of them around the state. I’ve been on a tour talking with people in their offices, in their counties, about what this all means. And it’s very clear, counties, the clerks across the state recognize this for what this is. It is not about voter security of elections. It’s about making it harder for people to vote. Think about a single mom in some rural place in Oregon – Enterprise, Oregon, for example. She works an hourly job, maybe two, because things are expensive, tariffs are making things more expensive right now. Gas is expensive.
And if she had to show up somewhere, she would have the cost of doing that. Remember, it’s the fall, so it’s probably kind of dangerous roads, potentially icy. She might have to get a babysitter, and she’d probably have to lose money from her job in order to show up. And then she’s got to wait in line. Everywhere else in the economy in the world, we’re trying to make things easier for people to fit into their complicated lives. It makes no sense for us to make a fundamental right of democracy harder for eligible people to participate in. This is the wrong direction for Oregon, and we will make sure that we defend our right to conduct elections as we see fit.
Miller: How much has vote-by-mail spread across the country since Oregon voters established it as the norm in 1998?
Read: Yeah, that’s right, 25 years ago we’ve been doing this. And the joke I often make is that when I’m talking with other secretaries of state, they sometimes say, “What’s this about mail-in voting?” And I deadpan at them and say, “I don’t know what you’re talking about. In Oregon we just call it voting.” People know it and they’re used to it here. States are generally moving in our direction and there are a number of steps that they can take, from absentee voting that people can use on occasion. They can use permanent or no excuse absentee voting.
These are things that people are getting used to. It’s worth remembering, the president himself voted by mail in 2020, so it was good enough for him. And by the way, in all his talk, I don’t know what his plan is for service members who are overseas. That’s how they vote right now too. And is he really suggesting that people who are putting their lives on the line for our country, for our democracy, should not be allowed to vote while they are deployed?
Miller: What have you heard about this when you’ve talked to fellow secretaries of state around the country who are Republican?
Read: Generally, they are committed to making sure that people have the right to hold politicians accountable. And when we are behind closed doors, they can recognize that this and the Save Act that the U.S. House passed are not about this. They’re not practical. They are not helpful. They do not add to security. They simply make it harder for people to vote. And even those Republican secretaries of state, particularly those who’ve been doing this for a while, recognize that it’s nonsense.
When we want to make it easier for people to vote, more convenient, when we want more people participating, we should be using more mail-in voting. And think about this from a political point of view too. It is rural voters particularly, a lot of whom who vote for Republicans, that would be most hurt by a move away from mail-in voting. They would bear more of a burden by where they’d have to show up, how far they’d have to travel, the barriers that are in their way. So even if you took it from a political point of view, I think it’s counterproductive for those who support Republicans.
Miller: But the fact remains that for the most part, leaders in red states have been very reluctant to push back against any of the president’s policies or priorities. Is there any reason to think that on this issue, things would be different?
Read: Well, I don’t speak for Republicans or anyone but myself here. I know that the Constitution is really clear that it’s states that run elections and I don’t think the president has the authority to do this by executive order ...
Miller: No, to start from the question, I wasn’t thinking about executive order. I was thinking about Congress.
Read: Well, Congress can certainly try that. And if they did, I think that the state elections officials across the state would have something to say to their members of Congress, saying this not only is it not helpful in terms of security, it’s probably not helpful in their own political interests, in red states, to say we want fewer people to be voting.
Miller: Tobias Read, thanks very much.
Read: Thank you.
Miller: Tobias Read is Oregon’s Secretary of State.
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