The Rowena and Burdoin Fires affected communities along the Oregon and Washington sides of the Columbia River. Many of the structures destroyed were part of the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area. The region has legal protections in place to preserve its natural and recreational resources, although the areas typically have some people already living there.
The Columbia River Gorge Commission helps create and enforce policies that preserve this area. Krystyna Wolniakowski is the executive director of the commission. Alex Johnson is a commissioner. They join us with more on what rebuilding looks like in a region with special protections and how the commission is working with property owners and residents on post-fire recovery.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Rebuilding after a fire is rarely easy, but it can be even more challenging when there are extra layers of land use restrictions. That’s the case in the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area, which burned in both the Rowena and Burdoin fires this summer. Now the Columbia River Gorge Commission is considering changes to those rules to help property owners and residents with post-fire recovery.
Krystyna Wolniakowski is the executive director of the Columbia River Gorge Commission. Alex Johnson is one of the commissioners. They both join us. It’s great to have both of you on the show.
Krystyna Wolniakowski: Thank you.
Alex Johnson: Good to be here.
Miller: Krystyna, first – what exactly is the Columbia River Gorge Commission?
Wolniakowski: Well, thank you for inviting us to be here with you today and with all your listeners. Before I talk about the Columbia River Gorge Commission, I wanted to talk a little bit about the National Scenic Area itself, because I think for people all over the United States who’ve come to visit, it’s really a spectacular, magnificent landscape. It’s very unusual. So back in 1986, it was designated Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area because of its unique ecosystems. It ranges 85 miles, from Troutdale all the way out to the Deschutes River. And as you are visiting Multnomah Falls or many of the hiking trails, it is absolutely stunning to see that landscape, completely beautiful with the forests and the grasslands.
But in order to keep it that way, there was a bi-state commission that was established to steward all those resources of the National Scenic Area. So our role is as a steward to make sure that the National Scenic Area stays as it is – ecologically diverse, but also a place where we have a lot of economic vitality because of those resources.
Miller: Are those two big pillars, your duties, ever in conflict? Are they ever not in conflict?
Wolniakowski: Well, I choose to look at them as being completely compatible, because when you are driving I-84 or hiking on any of the trails, what you’re seeing is an ancient landscape of basalt pillars, of forests, of grasslands, a lot of biodiversity, and people come to see that. There are over 3 million visitors a year that come to the National Scenic Area, so it’s very good for tourism. It’s good for the 13 communities that are nestled within the National Scenic Area, and there’s a lot of economic vitality because of how beautiful it is and what a significant landscape we have here that is unrivaled in the United States.
It’s the largest national scenic area in the entire country, and it’s the most diverse in terms of a mosaic of land uses and land ownerships. We have Tribal treaty lands, federal lands, state parks, but very important is a lot of private lands. People live on that landscape.
Miller: And farm, and have orchards …
Wolniakowski: Yes, working landscapes.
Miller: Alex, how do you think the Gorge would look different right now if it had never been granted national scenic area status?
Johnson: Yeah, it’s a particularly interesting question for me. I grew up south of Portland, on a filbert orchard, and my grandparents were actually out in Husum in Klickitat County, so when we visited them or they visited us, we would drive through the Columbia River Gorge. And I’m now growing pears and timber just south of Hood River, so I’m out in the Gorge, the broader region, not technically in the National Scenic Area. But certainly what Krystyna just described is a huge part of wanting to raise my family out there and have a farm out there.
I think what was clear in learning more about the commission as I looked into raising my hand to become a commissioner – I was eventually appointed by Governor Kotek earlier this year – but as I was looking into it, I think it’s one of those successes that’s a little tricky to describe quickly because it’s more about what isn’t there than what is.
And certainly in the early to mid ‘70s and early ‘80s, what a lot of folks became very concerned about was not just concepts out there, but actual plans by ODOT, the state of Washington and a bunch of private developers to essentially start using the Columbia River Gorge as a lot of industrial development all along the river banks and allowing for some pretty dense residential all along the bluffs. And without the National Scenic Area, I think that’s just what we would see.
So Multnomah Falls, I think would still be spectacular, but it would be a little bubble of spectacular surrounded by billboards, housing and industry. If those had all happened, certainly there would be some different economic forces, but I think as Krystyna just mentioned, we have a pretty thriving economy and we have a lot of people that either live there, want to live there or want to visit, because the region’s been protected and because it’s so unique, nationally.
Miller: Why did you want to be a member of the commission?
Johnson: I have a background in natural resource management and agriculture, and I served on the county planning commission for a couple of years in Hood River and got involved civically. And the National Scenic Area came up a couple times in some permit reviews and I wanted to learn more about it. What I was attracted to is it has a broad mandate geographically: 300,000 acres or so. That’s large, it’s six counties, and it’s such a range of priorities.
Krystyna mentioned, but just underlining, the commission is meant to protect and enhance – and “enhance” is important here too – the Gorge’s scenic, cultural, natural and recreational resources, as well as supporting compatible economic activities. So that’s just a huge range of things. And for my volunteer hours, this is a really exciting thing, not only for what they’ve been doing, but what the Gorge commission does over the next 20 to 30 years, I think is going to have a huge impact for us regionally.
Miller: Krystyna, is it fair to say that that most people who have some contact with the commission, it’s because they want to build something, add something or renovate something, and they have a permit in front of the commission that the commission is considering – that that’s the most likely way that they would actually interact with the commission?
Wolniakowski: Our role is pretty broad. So one of the ways that people interact with us is through permitting in Klickitat County, because we work with county planning departments in five counties – Multnomah, Hood River, Wasco County. Those planning departments are the ones that issue National Scenic Area land use permits. On the Washington side, Clark County and Skamania County have their own planning departments. But when it comes to Klickitat County, the Gorge Commission itself is the one who issues the permits. So we do interact with landowners that want to build homes, put in vineyards or some kind of barns for their agricultural activity, other structures, but really, we have a lot of interaction with communities all throughout the Gorge.
We just developed a climate change action plan. We worked with 40 partners from state agencies, federal agencies and nonprofit groups to try to really gather information on how we can make the Gorge much more of a resilient landscape to withstand the pressures of climate change.
Miller: How did the Eagle Creek Fire shape the commission’s thinking and focus? Going back … and we can talk about the fires this summer and the current responses to it, but the Eagle Creek Fire was so traumatic for this region. I’m curious what it meant for the commission?
Wolniakowski: Well, we were just as equally traumatized as everyone to see this landscape and all the ecological diversity, especially on that side of the river where it was mostly forested land, to see all that in flames. I was there. I watched it and it was very difficult, and really hats off to all the firefighters that did what they could to control it.
Fire is usually a natural part of the landscape and fire has always been a part of the landscape, but when it’s so intense like the Eagle Creek Fire was, it burned about 50,000 acres. Only 20% of it was severely burned. It’ll come back, but it was really fortunate that no homes were actually lost in that fire. So we were grateful for that, but the recovery is happening. It’s been eight years and we already see the system coming back, and moss growing and wildflowers blooming.
Miller: Alex, this year’s fires on either side – the Rowena Fire on the Oregon side and the Burdoin Fire on the Washington side – they were different, in that they did burn various structures. Can you give us a sense for the scale of the damage to human infrastructure?
Johnson: The commissioners were invited, I think we were the third tour that Wasco County put on of the Rowena Fire, after Governor Kotek and Senator Merkley. So we were there viewing the devastation. I believe it was 60 or so houses and a number of other outbuildings in the Rowena Fire. The Burdoin Fire, a little bit less than that, but still very catastrophic for the folks that live there. And I think especially devastating was that it was some of the last remaining lower and middle income housing in the region.
So, awful. And it’s something that, as commissioners, this is housing that exists not in the urban areas, which are a little outside of our authority but right in the area that the Gorge Commission is a regulatory agency over. So I think we, as a commission, and certainly the staff, have every intent to respond proactively. And from my perspective, it’s not just about making future permitting easier, it’s also looking at our broad mandate in the region and figuring out new ways, not just what we’ve done for 39 years. But I think there’s big opportunities for the Gorge Commission to find new ways to bring new resources, new collaborations, coordinate.
I think something we didn’t mention about the National Scenic Area that is very notable to me is how many different federal agencies and state agencies have authority over different parts and pieces – like it’s extremely complicated. So I think that’s a role that the commission already naturally plays, is coordinating some of the responses on these things, but hopefully something we can really lean into as obviously climate change makes it more and more likely that we see things like the Rowena and Burdoin fires going forward.
Miller: I want to hear more about that and your broader hopes for the commission’s future work. But sticking with the post-fire recovery, Krystyna, what kinds of challenges have you been hearing about from residents who lost their homes?
Wolniakowski: We have met with most of the landowners that have lost their homes in Klickitat County and of course many of them were never through a permitting process before. First they have the devastation of losing everything that they own, and in some cases animals, farm animals or pets. So the first thing we do is we want to show a lot of compassion for them and help them through this process as best as possible. So when they come to visit us ...
Miller: And just so I understand, you said that they hadn’t been through the permitting process, meaning their homes had been built before the National Scenic Area Act was passed?
Wolniakowski: Either that or they purchased the property since the houses have been built. So they have not actually been through a permitting process. And what we normally do is, we have pretty strict standards about how those houses or outbuildings need to look so they blend in with the landscape. You want to be looking at the landscape, not at the structure.
Miller: Not at a bright roof, say, or a window that reflects the sun.
Wolniakowski: [Or] a bright white house. That’s right. You don’t want to have that kind of reflection. And we have standards for that. Whenever someone comes in and wants to build a structure, we walk them through all the different requirements and we try to help them understand why we require that.
With the people that haven’t ever been through this process but have also had the double problem of the devastation, we really try to help them understand why the standards are there, but then we walk them through every single step of the way. And one of the things that our commissioners just discussed the other day is to actually look at disaster and emergency rebuilding. What is it that we have in our plan now that actually supports really quick rebuilding, to make sure that people can just rebuild right on the same spot where they had their home before, if that’s what they want to do?
Miller: Alex, what changes do you plan to implement, then?
Johnson: Oh, Krystyna would know the details better. I mean, I think Krystyna and the staff have been really deeply engaged. I definitely want to commend them from a commissioner’s perspective. This is not an emergency response agency, so this is not a muscle that the Gorge Commission really has used a lot. But Krystyna and the staff have been in deep engagement, especially with Wasco County and Klickitat County, and understanding where the pain points are for those agencies. And then on our end, I think it’s really allowing folks to stay in RVs for longer than we currently allow.
Miller: While they’re rebuilding?
Johnson: Exactly. It’s a lot of basically loosening our requirements for a disaster scenario because those requirements, from a permitting perspective for the National Scenic Area, were never built to keep people from rebuilding their homes quickly after a fire. It was for new builds, to make sure that they conformed with these regulations.
Miller: Krystyna?
Wolniakowski: So in summary, one of the things that Alex just mentioned was that we usually have “people can stay in an RV for 60 days,” let’s say, and that’s allowed. But now, when you’re trying to rebuild your home, you’re not going to be able to rebuild your home in 60 days, so we want to extend the period that people can live on their property as they’re supervising the rebuilding.
We’re shortening the time that it takes to actually get through a permit process to try to expedite them. So if they just want to build the same size house in the same spot, it’ll go really quick. And then third, we also want them to be able to look at how … What was the third? Sorry …
Miller: What I’ve seen is extended timelines for rebuilds. These are all things that have been considered – more flexibility in terms of siting replacement homes and streamlining permitting for replacing homes, in addition to the RV. Those are all things I’d seen.
Wolniakowski: Yes, that’s exactly right, and we’re actually going to have policy language that we’re proposing to change and expedite the rebuilding process. We’re gonna release it this week. And we’re going to have a 30-day comment period, so people can tell us whether they think that these rules that we’ve changed to try to expedite the rebuilding will suit their needs.
Miller: Alex, in the big picture, how are you thinking about the next management plan and the future of the Gorge that you want to encourage through this bi-state commission?
Johnson: Krystyna didn’t mention they’re doing this response under, unfortunately, a more uncertain funding regime than we’ve had in the past. State of Washington’s budget troubles you’ve probably heard of, and your listeners have as well. The state of Washington actually only provided the Gorge Commission 75% of our request and then the state of Oregon matched that. So Krystyna and other full-time staff are trying to figure out how to do with 25% less resources.
And then obviously what I’m seeing and many other people locally are seeing is much more need. And I think that’s both the challenge and the opportunity that I see, getting back to your question. I think the Gorge and the Pacific Northwest are going to be under very different pressures over the next 40 years than they were in the previous 40 years. A bunch of those, I think, are caused by climate change, but it’s also economic. I just read the report a couple days ago on the different outlook for Oregon’s economy for the next 20 years than the previous. And I think that’s gonna hit us and it’s gonna hit us all.
So yeah, I’m excited as a commissioner because I feel that there is a wide authority and obligation for the Gorge Commission to not just focus on “scenic,” which we’re well known for, but to also demonstrate our support for cultural, ecological and economic vitality in the region. And it’s a really important region to be managed, from my perspective, in a bi-state, coordinated manner. If it stops at Oregon’s water’s edge or Washington’s, then you’re not getting the coordination that I think is just natural for people that live out there.
I think wildfire resiliency is a massive one on the minds of commissioners and all the people that live and play in the National Scenic Area. I think rural economic vitality is very important, especially for the folks that live there. And then culturally and ecologically, especially in a resource-constrained federal environment, state environment, how do we as an agency make sure to be looking for new resources – be they funding or responsibilities – that can basically make our region stronger and more vibrant?
Miller: Alex and Krystyna, thanks very much.
Johnson: Thank you so much.
Wolniakowski: Thank you. Appreciate being here.
Miller: Alex Johnson is a commissioner, a member of the Columbia River Gorge Commission. Krystyna Wolniakowski is the executive director of the commission.
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