Progressive City Councilor Mitch Green, who represents Portland’s District 4 and is himself a veteran, called on local members of the military to protest the deployment of National Guard troops to the city. He joins us with more on the deployment.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. Mitch Green represents District 4 on the Portland City Council. He’s also an Army veteran. On Sunday, after the president announced that he was federalizing the Oregon National Guard and would send 200 troops to the city, Green posted a video calling on veterans to protest against this mobilization. He also added this.
Mitch Green: For those of you still serving, I want to remind you that your oath of service requires you to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. That oath does not grant the President a right to your absolute obedience. You have not only the right, but the duty, to disobey an unlawful order.
Miller: Mitch Green joins us. It’s good to have you back on the show.
Green: It’s great to be on. Thank you so much.
Miller: What made you post that video?
Green: I’ve been in the anti-war veteran space long before I was elected to office. When I campaigned for this role, I was thinking about the possibility that we might get Trump back in office and that we might be at threat of an authoritarian escalation. So I always had this in my pocket and when we first heard grumblings and later last week that this was coming, I decided that this was an appropriate time to throw that jacket on and speak directly to a segment of the population that has a long tradition of this type of resistance in American history.
Miller: When you say ‘throw that jacket on, you mean literally. You put on your old uniform to make that video?
Green: I did, yeah, the specific uniform I had when I was in Afghanistan.
Miller: In an interview with OPB yesterday, Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Bomar, the Director of Public Affairs for the Oregon Military Department, talked about clauses that are also in the oath of office for National Guard members. He said this.‘We swear an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States and to obey the orders of the Governor of the State of Oregon. These are lawful orders until deemed otherwise.’ What are the repercussions for failing to obey an order in the military?
Green: That’s a really good question. Organizations like the National Lawyers Guild advise soldiers who may want to refuse orders based upon moral or their own personal belief that they think is illegal. The repercussions are determined after the fact, based upon the conditions. So it is a huge risk. And I want to be honest about that.
Yeah, you can be prosecuted. It’s illegal. You would certainly be subject to uniform code of military justice action. And so the weight that the soldier or the airman or the marine needs to consider in that moment is what they weigh more, their moral convictions and what they think is right versus their risk assessment on what kind of consequences they want to face.
Miller: Did you ever say no to a direct order from a commanding officer when you were serving?
Green: No.
Miller: Did you ever come close?
Green: No, I don’t think so because I never faced that kind of moral ambiguity. When I was deployed in Afghanistan, I had a much different understanding of the world around me. I got my anti-war politics during and after. But I was there as a civil affairs sergeant, a soldier doing the kind of hearts-and-minds-Peace-Corps-with-the-gun type of work.
Areas where you see this occur, historically, are when soldiers are directed in a combat situation where they might have to pull the trigger on someone where they think it would be inappropriate to do. Or during the Vietnam War, we saw a lot of this when folks would get mobilized and then say ‘no, actually I think this war is illegal and immoral.’
Miller: According to that spokesman I mentioned earlier from the Oregon Military Department, 166 guard members, primarily from the I-5 corridor, have already volunteered for service in Portland. It’s not that they have said no to an order. They have said yes, I will go myself. What does that tell you?
Green: Well, I think it’s troubling. It tells me that there are different politics around this state. There’s folks in Portland who have, potentially, a much different assessment of whether or not we’re at risk of losing our democracy in America. But I’ll always say this. I was one of the big flag wavers leading up to the Iraq war invasion. And I came out of my military experience thinking that was one of the worst episodes in history.
So every day, a soldier or guardsmen or whatever they may be, has an opportunity to reevaluate and think about the moment they’re in. So when I put out a message like that, that’s also an appeal to the broader veteran community to say, ‘I was there once, too.’ And this is an opportunity to communicate with friends and family, those still in, and say, ‘are you sure about this? You might be in a situation in Portland where you have to face an illegal order.’
Miller: What kinds of responses have you gotten from that video?
Green: I mean, the responses have been overwhelmingly positive. We received a phone call at our district admin desk from a guy in Arizona who said the video brought him to tears. He was very grateful because he has a lot of friends and family in the Portland area. We received a lot of feedback from former service members who appreciate taking the risk and using the uniform that way. Of course I’ve gotten some negative feedback too. But that is no different than it’s ever been in the history of resistance politics, for sure.
Miller: Have you talked to veterans or active duty members in the military now who consider the president’s order not just lawful but wise?
Green: I have not talked to those people directly. It may come as no surprise, but they’re not in my direct immediate circles. That kind of feedback typically comes through my social media comments, and it’s generally along the lines of ‘how dare you disrespect the commander in chief.’ And of course, I don’t have any respect for the commander in chief and I think that’s okay. But for actively serving members, I think it’s really important to recognize that folks who are actively serving would take a huge risk to engage in that kind of dialogue. So I wouldn’t expect that to happen.
Miller: What do you plan to do if, at this point probably it’s when, pending a response from the judge on Friday, when the National Guard arrives?
Green: I will continue to use the bully pulpit and stage that I have to encourage this broader veterans mobilization. We saw it in 2020 with the Wall of Veterans. There’s always a contingent of politically active veterans in this community. So I’m already in conversation with folks affiliated with organizations like About Face, which is an anti-war veterans organization.
When we show up to these big protests like at the Waterfront Park and emphasis on the big ones, where you see the family-friendly actions, make yourself a veterans contingent, because that is a very powerful symbol that’s not just a rubber stamp for an authoritarian president just because you serve. I think you get the presumption of that in a lot of areas in the state outside of Portland.
Miller: The message ‒ and we heard it again from Bob Day in recent days ‒ has literally been to Portlanders and to protesters, I think even more specifically, don’t take the bait. I’m curious what you make of that message?
Green: What I would say is it’s never been more important to look at the urgency of the moment and stand up and use your voice to say ‘this is not normal and this is not right.’ When it comes to tactics and strategy on doing that, there are smart ways to do it and things that are unproductive.
I would encourage folks to not be drawn to a federal facility and engage in any kind of a direct confrontation with those places. Because I think what you’re gonna find is a missed opportunity to join this larger movement, and of course draw out a federal contingent that is very much trying to incite a media newsworthy narrative for sure.
Miller: Mitch Green, thanks very much.
Green: Thank you.
Miller: Mitch Green is a member of the Portland City Council.
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