The definition of digital literacy has changed dramatically over the last couple of decades. Although one report found that teens spend about seven hours a day on their phones, employers have learned that some young people have a lack of computer skills. Eric Magidson is an IT consultant and professor of computer information systems at Central Oregon Community College. He recently wrote about this issue and why policymakers should step in. He joins us with more on the changes he wants to see.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. Eric Magidson is an IT consultant and a professor of Computer Information Systems at Central Oregon Community College. He recently wrote an op-ed in the Bend Bulletin sounding the alarm about what he has been seeing. He says Oregon is failing to prepare students for the digital world and that AI is only going to make this problem worse. Eric Magidson, welcome to Think Out Loud.
Eric Magidson: Thank you for having me today.
Miller: How long have you been thinking about writing this kind of op-ed in your local paper?
Magidson: Well, actually, this topic became a focus, I’ve been teaching for 18 years and about seven years in, there was some change made in Oregon that really minimized that digital literacy requirement. And now, as I see AI take over, I have really serious concerns about our ability to prepare students for the digital world, especially that world that is now going to include AI.
Miller: I want to get to AI because it’s an inescapable part of this, but you said that you’ve been thinking about this for a while. What do you mean when you say digital literacy?
Magidson: So when we talk about digital literacy, what we’re talking about is the ability for a person – not just a student – to successfully manage, navigate, and secure themselves online primarily. But when we talk about this, we’re also talking about the ability to successfully use online tools such as cloud storage, to be able to use primary operating systems such as Windows, which is still predominant in business, Mac, etc.
Miller: You’ve said that we should make a distinction between digital skills and digital actions. What do you mean?
Magidson: So, digital actions, what I’m referring to there is the ability – since we’re focusing on students – the ability to interact with their phones, do social media, create a TikTok, etc. Digital skills, however, are, can I successfully, for example, zip a file and email it? Can I create an encrypted email for sensitive data and send it? Can I manage files on my local computer within the cloud, those essential skills that now surpass just the ability to use a computer.
Miller: Are you not seeing that second big bucket of skills in the Central Oregon Community College students that are coming to your classes?
Magidson: No, absolutely not. And actually, interestingly enough, you mentioned AI. This term I’m teaching two sequences of what’s called CIS 120, Computer Concepts. It’s essentially digital literacy. And what we used to teach 10 years ago was just the basics. It was the Windows operating system, a little bit of Mac, how to use word processing, spreadsheets, and presentation software.
But today, that’s expanded into AI, into understanding the cloud, how to use, say, Microsoft Word in the cloud compared to locally. Where do I store files? How do I protect myself online, as well as my community? So real quickly, I actually used AI. I had students go out and have it create, based on what’s called the IC3 – the International Computer Competency Skills – AI created a 20 question pre-test prior to the class. The average grade on that was 14.33 out of 20.
Miller: Do you think that it would have been different, just as a kind of thought experiment, if 10 years ago, you did the same thing and came up with 20 questions that at that time would have been a good assessment of digital skills and knowledge? Obviously the tools were slightly different then, but some of the things you’re talking about have actually, were no different, absolutely existed 10 years ago. Do you think the scores would have been different?
Magidson: Actually, I can tell you that they weren’t. Most instructors that taught this class, say at COCC, started with a little pre-test or an outline of the skills that would be taught in the course. At the time that there was change coming through as to no longer requiring a digital literacy class for every program in community colleges, we did the research and had students complete a test and the average was 15% pass rate. So nothing’s really changed.
Miller: Okay, it’s maybe silly and maybe it just says something about my mentality right now that I’m I’m grasping for slightly, tiny bits of good news and the fact that things haven’t gotten a lot worse in 10 years, it satisfied that that urge to find tiny slivers of good news just for a second, but now we can go back to the actual grade itself. You also wrote this. “The fallacy is assuming that because students can post on TikTok, communicate on Snapchat, or share on Instagram, they have the foundation for success.” So what do you see as the foundation of success for your students or for young people more broadly?
Magidson: Well, that foundation for success, as we’re talking about here, is that the basics of digital literacy. That navigation, the successful use, not just writing a word document, but being able to format it professionally, communicate professionally. The more I see students spending time on their phones – which tends to average about six hours a day per student that they spend on their phones – we’re not just talking about digital literacy, but successful communication. Those employability skills that come through digital literacy: communication, social intelligence, you name it.
Miller: It’s interesting that as you’ve been describing the skills that you say are are lacking in a lot of Oregon students right now, and we can get to the kinds of changes you’re calling for, you haven’t really talked that much about digital media literacy and a really good understanding of what’s real and what’s not, what has been fabricated, say, now by generative AI and not actually tethered to reality and what’s not. Crucial issues for our political and civic lives. Where does that fit into your conception of what students are currently learning and what they should be learning?
Magidson: Well, that’s a great question and the answer is within digital literacy, they need to learn the skills to go out to determine what is real, what is fake, right? And as we’re already seeing just in the last week with the release of Sora 2.0 by Gemini, the ability to create deep fakes is absolutely prevalent. But students aren’t getting the skills, they’re just accepting what’s being thrown at them on their phones or in social media, etc. as truth. And I would ascertain it’s because they haven’t been trained to critically think through or trained to go how to find the facts, how to find the truth before they repost something. And this, of course, is not just students, but the general public.
Miller: So what does the state actually require right now in terms of digital literacy education?
Magidson: Well, right now, they don’t require anything. And what I mean by that is that in 2008, legislation came up with this idea of essential skills. This included what you would expect it to: the reading, the writing, math, and then what they put as the ability to use technology to learn and work. That’s a general overview, right? So there’s really not a defined set of skills that now are growing exponentially because of the impact of AI that are covered. However, in 2021, legislators forgo those essential skills, primarily saying the pandemic is the cause, and they’re not looking to bring those back till ‘27-28 academic year.
Miller: What exactly do you want? I mean, if you were in charge of mandating a curriculum or standards or a curriculum tied to standards, what would you put forward, say, for K-12 students?
Magidson: So that’s a great question and it does lead to my ultimate goal and initiative here, which I want to be clear. I want to see the state enact digital literacy requirements for students K through 12, community college and college that they have to meet as part of their degree programs or as part of a graduation program, and those skills are vast. Word pro… basic operating system knowledge. How do I save a file to an operating system? How do I create a folder structure so I can find things again? How do I know which software is legit to download, and which is gonna take over my computer, like ransomware? How do I assess risks to both myself personally as well as the company I’m working for when I click on that malicious link within a phishing email that instigates ransomware into the company and takes down the company.
Miller: You say, for example, an 8th grader to be learning that.
Magidson: I would say I want a high school student mostly to be learning this, but I think there are skills that – especially as AI permeates education – there are skills we need to be teaching those students such as, AI is not fact. AI can make mistakes, they’re called hallucinations. And how do we find out what’s fact and what’s a hallucination so that I understand what I’m learning in school when I’m using AI?
Miller: How do you think about educational priorities at a time when Oregon is still struggling statewide to improve basic skills like math and reading. How do you feel about adding new standards and new requirements?
Magidson: Well, when we talk about those standards, and yes, I’m really disappointed. I, of course, as an educator, get those feeds that show we’re at the bottom in math, we’re at the bottom in reading, we’re in the bottom of writing, but realize a lot of the way we’re teaching is we’re using digital resources and tools to teach reading, to teach writing, to teach math. So they’re given a hammer to hammer a nail, without knowing how to properly use the hammer.
Miller: Eric Magidson, thanks very much.
Magidson: You’re welcome. Thanks for having me on today.
Miller: Eric Magidson is an IT consultant and professor of Computer Information Systems at Central Oregon Community College.
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