The Dalles approves Google water deal

The Dalles City Council has approved a water deal with Google, allowing the company to move forward with plans to expand in the area. But, residents have been concerned about Google’s water use as the region suffers from a drought. And the amount of water the company uses remains a secret to most. We hear details about the deal from Dan Richardson, a city councilor.

This transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer.

Dave Miller: From the Gert Boyle Studio at OPB, this is Think Out Loud. I’m Dave Miller. 15 years ago, Google built its first data center in The Dalles. Now, the company can go forward in expanding its operations. That follows a recent unanimous vote by the city council. A Google spokesperson said that Google data centers in The Dalles helped millions of people find directions and emails and search for information every day. One piece of information they won’t be able to find, is just how much water the data centers will use. Data centers need lots of water to prevent their servers from getting too hot.

But the company says the exact amount of water it will use is a trade secret. So residents in The Dalles don’t actually know the details of the agreement. That’s caused public outcry as well as a lawsuit. Dan Richardson is a member of the city council and he joins us now. It’s good to have you on TOL.

Dan Richardson: Good afternoon Dave. I wouldn’t say there’s an outcry. Definitely we have a number of people who are interested and concerned and have asked about that particular number.

Miller: You don’t think that some people in town are upset about this?

Richardson: I think that there are probably some people upset, but I think that the sharpest outrage or outcry I’ve heard has actually been from members of the news profession.

Miller: It sounds like the only outcry I have right now is it sounds like the microphone is rubbing against a shirt or something. So if you can try to make the mic not rub against something, it’ll be easier for us to hear you.

Richardson: Roger that.

Miller: Thank you. Let’s start with what you can tell us and the public about the deal.

Richardson: Well, Dave, I would say the deal has been pretty public for several months now. So the utilities agreements, not just the water agreement, the utilities agreement, water and wastewater, that’s public. We’ve made it readily available to anybody who wants to look it up and read it. Several reports that gave context to our public works department in putting some of the technical details together, those are public. We’ve held multiple public meetings. We feel that a lot of constituent questions and comments for a few months now or several months …  it’s been a really public and interactive process. I feel it’s been a careful deliberative decision. There is one bit of that’s not made public, and that’s frustrating to some people. And I understand, I sympathize. I wish that data were public too. Americans want to make up their own minds, and they need information to do that. In this case, there’s maybe competing interests. There is what we think is a legally defensible trade secret claim, and the city has agreed to uphold that claim. It did so a few years ago, and we are sort of obligated to do that and we are.

Miller: Can you help us understand what it is about the amount of water that the company uses, that makes it a trade secret? That puts them at a disadvantage, a competitive advantage, if their competitors knew how much water they’re using to cool down their servers?

Richardson: Well, I’m not comfortable speaking for Google, and that’s not my place. I will say I’ve had it likened to me or explained to me, somebody was likening it to, they have a recipe they’re following. They have so much power, they have so much water, they have so much waste water in running a data center and they want to keep the recipe secret. I couldn’t really vouch for the absolute necessity for this to be a secret. That’s beyond me. They have a claim, the city thinks it’s a valid or legitimate claim. And look, somebody could go rogue right? I could say, “Hey Dave, here are the precise numbers”, but sometimes you have to honor agreements, even if it were not strictly convenient. So I’ve said, in my opinion, legal case aside, it would be a neighborly act for Google to release the water usage data. Not because they’re compelled to, but because it would be good for our community. And it would probably put people’s minds at ease, and I wish that were so. And I will say it’s not strictly a black box, in the sense that we know the water right at the heart of this agreement is 3.88 million gallons a day. And the water delivery to Google will be less than that.

Miller: And to be clear, that’s the amount that they’ve had access to, because they bought this property, and that was tied to it for 15 years now, right? And so what we’ve been told is that they’ll be using less than what they have been allowed to use for the last 15 years. Do I have that right?

Richardson: I don’t know how long they have had that. I don’t think it’s actually been 15 years. It’s tied to a piece of property they now have. Yes. So as you know, a water right is a kind of property right. That water, in my estimation it’s gonna get used. So we have to decide if there is benefit to the city in making an agreement, a utilities agreement that leaves the city in control of that water supply. And I think it does. I think we want the city’s hand on the faucet, rather than the corporation’s hand on the faucet.

Miller: I’m curious, we just have about a minute and a half left, but in the biggest picture, when it comes to the details for utilities for water, but also for tax breaks, I’m curious how much leverage you feel like you had, given that you’re a small city going up against one of the richest and most powerful corporations in the history of the world, and a corporation that can pick up stakes and go anywhere they want, essentially. How much power did you have to make ANY kinds of deals?

Richardson: Well, it’s a great question and it remains necessarily a little uncertain. Because it was a negotiation. The city, the community said, look, we want you to pay full freight, we want you to pay 100%, or 90% of property taxes that would be normally assessed. And the company came back low and said, “how about much less?”. And I’m simplifying it, but we said 90%, they said 10%, we said 80%, they said 20%, something to that effect. And in the end the city and the county had a joint negotiating team. The negotiation came out in the middle of 50% and 60%. I guess I couldn’t really speak to how much or give you a way to quantify how much leverage we had. We had enough to negotiate. I was not on the negotiating team and was only elected a year ago, but obviously we collectively felt that to gain the benefit, the substantial benefits of this expansion, that some negotiation was necessary.

Miller: Dan Richardson, thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

Richardson: Thanks Dave.

Miller: Dan Richardson is a member of The Dalles City Council.

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