Like Oregon, Washington state is what’s known as a sanctuary state. The Keep Washington Working act prohibits local law enforcement agencies from using county jails for immigrant detention and from interviewing or detaining those suspected of not having permanent legal status. Washington’s attorney general is suing Adams County Sheriff Dale Wagner for allegedly sharing inmate information with federal immigration agents and holding people in jail solely based on immigration status. Sheriff Wagner says he is defending the constitution. Jazmine Ulloa wrote about this for the New York Times and joins us with the story.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Washington, like Oregon, is what’s known as a sanctuary state. The Keep Washington Working Act prohibits local law enforcement agencies from using county jails for immigrant detention, and from interviewing or detaining those suspected of not having permanent legal status. Washington’s Attorney General says that the Adams County Sheriff in eastern Washington, Dale Wagner, is going against that law, and he’s brought a suit against him. Jazmine Ulloa wrote about this as a national reporter for The New York Times. She joins us now with the details. Welcome to the show.
Jazmine Ulloa: Hi, thank you for having me.
Miller: You’re based in Washington DC. What made you want to cover this sheriff in a pretty small county in eastern Washington?
Ulloa: So I’ve been following the debate over so-called sanctuary cities and states for a long time now, since the first Trump administration when I was in California. And at the time, state leaders in California were actually passing a state law to limit collaboration between federal law enforcement agencies and law enforcement agencies and to create safe zones for immigrants ‒ courthouses, churches. That sparked a huge debate at the time. It really empowered immigrants in the state and in other places to follow suit. More liberal cities like Boston, Denver, Chicago, were looking at it as a model.
And now this time around, during the second Trump administration, we’re actually seeing the flip side of that. Because as support for the sanctuary city movement was building, there was also this countermovement that was being led by other states such as Texas and Florida that were actually trying to increase collaboration between these two sides of the debate, between law enforcement agencies and federal immigration enforcement agencies.
Miller: I mentioned this briefly, but it’s worth having a better understanding of the Washington law here. So the Keep Washington Working Act passed in 2019. What does it say?
Ulloa: It passed in 2019. A lot of groups ‒ immigrant rights groups, business groups, community leaders ‒ were involved in crafting that legislation. It had support from Democrats and Republicans. And it basically prohibits law enforcement from engaging in activities like asking about immigration status, detaining individuals for civil immigration violations, and sharing personal information with ICE or customs and border protection, except for specific circumstances such as ongoing criminal investigations. And it also requires local and state agencies to adopt policies that are in keeping with that state law, and to notify when they’re not following it.
Miller: You mentioned that it passed with some bipartisan support, which is striking given just how partisan this issue is nationally right now. And you also mentioned that some law enforcement was in favor of it. In general, what do local sheriffs or police chiefs say about why they might like so-called sanctuary laws?
Ulloa: Yeah, so I spoke with the Attorney General Nick Brown about this, and he actually said that a lot of law enforcement agencies were on board ‒ large and small law enforcement agencies and including some sheriff agencies ‒ and those that support the law believe that it helps their communities because immigrants feel safe. They feel safe coming forward. They are also the eyes and ears and neighborhoods. You want more people reporting crimes rather than not coming forward. And especially in cases such as domestic violence cases, assault cases, immigrants can be critical witnesses, or they’re often victims in these crimes. Law enforcement officers who are in favor of these policies want people coming forward.
Miller: What is Nick Brown, the state attorney general, alleging in his lawsuit against the sheriff? What is he saying that the sheriff did?
Ulloa: So basically, the lawsuit is alleging that he’s holding people solely based on immigration status, and that he’s sharing the personal information of immigrants in cases where he shouldn’t be. The sheriff is denying some of those allegations. But then he’s also defending his ability to share certain information because of certain programs that he has running in his agency.
Miller: It does seem to get sort of complicated there. Because as you’re saying, it seems like the sheriff is in some ways saying, “no, I’m not doing this.” And in others saying, “well, yes, I am, but it’s because federal law trumps state law, and it’s my job to uphold the U.S. Constitution.” What is the sheriff’s argument?
Ulloa: The sheriff’s argument is saying, “we’re not holding people solely based on immigration status. We’re not arresting people solely based on immigration status. But in certain situations, for example, when we detain people and transfer them to jail” ‒ because Adams County is so small and it doesn’t have its own jail, the county actually contracts with a neighboring county to hold prisoners ‒ so he’s saying, “all those prisoners, we put up their information who we’ve detained. But it’s publicly available for anyone online, including federal immigration agencies, to have access to that information.”
Aside from that, the sheriff also sees ICE as a law enforcement agency within itself. And so sometimes agents from that agency call his agency or his deputies. He told me, “our deputies will take a call from time to time when they’re looking for someone. And yes, we’ve helped them out in certain situations, just directing them to where that information might be.” So he’s defending the right to be able to do that as a law enforcement official who’s in charge of protecting his constituents.
The AG is saying, “no, wait a minute, we have a state law, and we all have to follow that state law,” which is clarifying that federal immigration enforcement falls to the federal government, not state agencies.
Miller: Dale Wagner, the sheriff, he won re-election in 2022 by about 14% points in a county that has about 64% of its population is Hispanic and went heavily for Donald Trump in 2024. What have you heard from people in the community ‒ from county residents ‒ about this debate, about what’s happening?
Ulloa: It’s really mixed, like it is in many communities. It’s a very similar debate to what I’ve heard in other immigrant communities, predominantly immigrant and predominantly Hispanic communities. You have a Latino population that is predominantly a lot of times Mexican American, has been in the country for a while ‒ second, third generation ‒ has access to upward mobility in a lot of communities. And in a lot of communities, law enforcement is a way for upward mobility, right? A lot of Hispanic families have relatives who work for federal immigration enforcement, who work for sheriff agencies. And even in this case, Sheriff Wagner has said, “I actually have gone out of my way to recruit more Hispanic officers. And that’s not DEI ‒ diversity and inclusion initiatives ‒ I’m just trying to make sure that the department reflects the community it is serving.”
So you have Hispanic sheriff deputies and families that are very much in favor of what he’s doing. But then you also have a very fearful immigrant community who the county relies on to pick the crops in this area and in a county that is known for its production of potatoes and cherries and apples.
It’s a very interesting mix of support, but also fear, and I also have to say empowerment on the part of some immigrants who have felt an urge to protest some of these policies to come out in support of immigrants who are being rounded up in raids in places like Adams County. So it’s a really interesting time to witness how this debate is unfolding.
Miller: Dale Wagner was invited to testify at a congressional hearing last week that included some other local law enforcement agents from around the country. What does it tell you that he has been championed by both some members of the Trump administration, and by Republicans in Congress?
Ulloa: He really sees himself as David going up against Goliath, this small, 18-member agency going up against the state’s top lawyers. But at the same time, his fight has drawn him the legal representation from a conservative organization founded by President Trump’s chief immigration adviser, Stephen Miller. So in speaking with he AG, he actually said, “well, it seems to me like they’re actually Goliath and we’re David in this fight.” It seems like House Republicans have really been looking for a test model, a county where a sheriff is standing up to the state, and this seems like a good model for that.
And of course, I asked the sheriff if he saw it that way ‒ if he saw himself as a symbol or a leader in this broader movement that’s been taking place for years ‒ and he argued that he was not interested in that, that this is not about politics for him, that this is just solely about again providing public safety for his community.
Miller: You’re originally from El Paso. You have a book about it coming out next year. You’ve reported all over the country, including in California. Washington state is obviously the northern border, not the southern border. I’m curious from your reporting all over the country, but with a deep knowledge of the southern border, the extent to which immigration is at this point just a nationalized issue?
Ulloa: I’ve been so fascinated about this. That’s the reason why I started writing my book in the first place. My hometown of El Paso, on the western tip of Texas, the southern border tends to come into the national consciousness through this lens of national security, through boots on the ground and border walls. So I really wanted to provide this other picture ‒ a new picture of the nation ‒ and what it says about our mix of culture. How there’s more to the border than just a wall, but there’s bridges and there’s trade and there’s this influx of people coming in and out, and this culture that forms within itself, right?
Now you have this refrain across the country of fear. The “every city is a border state.” The refrain that we constantly hear from one party is every state has become a border state, every city has become a border city. I really feel like El Paso is a model forward, and how that may be true, but it might not be so scary.
Miller: Jazmine, thanks very much.
Ulloa: Thank you.
Miller: Jazmine Ulloa is a national reporter for the New York Times who recently wrote about the Adams County sheriff in Eastern Washington who is now being sued by the Washington State attorney general.
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