Several hundred people gathered outside the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement building in Portland on Sunday to protest the Trump administration’s decision to send 200 members of the Oregon National Guard to the city.
Although the protest was mostly peaceful, more than a dozen counterprotesters verbally clashed with protesters and several protesters were hit with pepper balls as ICE agents attempted to escort cars into the building.
On Monday, Portland police announced the arrest of two individuals on assault charges outside the ICE building.
“We will not accept or tolerate people coming down to the south waterfront for the purpose of engaging in violence,” Portland Police Chief Bob Day said at a press conference on Monday morning. He also praised the role of dialogue officers to reduce tensions during protests, which he cited as an example of the bureau’s reforms to how it manages crowds since the 2020 racial justice protests.
Chief Day talks with us to share the agency’s approach to handling protests outside the ICE facility, planning for a possible uptick in protest activity once the Oregon National Guard has been deployed to the city and how Portland police will communicate with a federalized National Guard.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. ‘Always ready. Always there.’ That’s the motto of the National Guard. At some point in the coming days, there is likely to be the Immigration and Customs Enforcement building in Portland’s South Waterfront. Over the weekend, President Trump announced he was federalizing the Oregon National Guard and sending 200 troops to Portland. We’re gonna spend the hour today talking about this. We start with Portland Police Chief Bob Day. Welcome back to the show.
Chief Bob Day: Hi Dave, thanks for having me.
Miller: The president says Portland is anarchy, is war ravaged, and is like living in hell. Can you describe what protests at the ICE facility have been like in the weeks leading up to the president’s announcement?
Day: Yeah, we had a high degree of conflict early on in the spring, where we were pretty heavily engaged down there. We made a number of arrests around acts of violence, acts of vandalism. As we got into June and first of July, we were able to dial back some of our specific enforcement efforts. The building and the ingress and egress in the building is still the responsibility of the Federal Protective Service.
In July and August, there were some conflicts between them and some of the demonstrators. But overall, we were believing that it was being managed and handled. And as we prioritize other challenges around the city, we weren’t as directly involved because it didn’t rise to that level for us. So relatively consistent behavior down there over the last couple of months.
Miller: What’s the latest you’ve heard about when the National Guard might actually be on the scene?
Day: Yeah, that’s still very wide open. It would be really just speculative on my part, but I’m assuming that it’ll be within the coming days, but there has not been given to us a specific time frame as to when they’re going to be on the ground. But my guess is that it will be within the coming days.
Miller: What about place? Any more specificity there or details about, say, the Federal courthouse in addition to the ICE building?
Day: Well, there was talk that they would be responsible for site security for federal buildings, which of course includes the one in South Waterfront, Edith Green and the courthouse, both on either side of the Justice Center downtown. So once again, sort of speculating. As you can imagine, there’s a lot of different voices in this conversation, both at the state level and at the national level, as we’re all trying to sort of get our arms around what’s going on. But those are three primary federal buildings that I know they may have some interest in.
Miller: How would you describe the working relationship that PPB has had with federal law enforcement at the ICE building over the last three months?
Day: We have real open lines of communication. The Federal Protective Service, which is a uniformed arm of the federal law enforcement, has been in the city for years. They handle security, for example, at the Edith Green Building or when the Gus Solomon Building was open and other federal properties.
So we’ve worked with them going back, even, decades and have maintained that relationship and that open line of communication. Because of sanctuary state laws, there definitely are some challenges and complexities associated with the facility and the ingress and egress of the facility and our role and ability to participate in enforcement down there and their role and responsibilities.
So we are really trying to honor Portlanders’ expectations and abide by state law and city code [while] at the same time, maintaining those lines of communication. So far I think we’ve done that really well. It has been the case over the last several months and it has been the case even in the last few days.
Miller: Do you think that anything is going to change in terms of your ability to communicate with these various federal actors when there are troops on the ground, as opposed to federal law enforcement?
Day: Well, I certainly hope not. My message has been that the Portland Police Bureau is going to be consistent in its approach to this challenge, regardless of the entrance of the Guard or more federal officers or whatever it might be. Certainly not in a naive way, I’m well aware of the politics as well as the operational risk and complexities of it.
But I feel very confident that the way the Portland Police Bureau has been operating in this space really since the first of the year. We’ve been learning, growing and developing, and I see us staying on that course. So I’m hoping that our interaction and lines of communication will remain open.
I think this is the most critical time for us to be able to speak to one another. And we’ve done the groundwork at times of less tension so that we’re more prepared now.
Miller: Can you describe the approach that you’ve taken at ICE building protests, especially the ones, say, in the beginning of the summer, or even in the late spring, the ones that that actually did have more instances of sporadic violence, the approach you took as a bureau and how it was different from 2020?
Day: Well, a couple of different things. One, the use of our dialogue officers has been so significant, where we embed officers early on. These are officers that are clearly identifiable with white shirts. They’ve had additional training, and they go early on and try to establish communication and understanding.
Maybe provide some off ramps for some of the dissidents so that we can take the temperature down. If people are not responsive to that, they don’t engage, that’s fine. We don’t enforce ourselves on them, but we make ourselves available.
And then we make ourselves visible so the crowd at least knows that we’re aware this isn’t a ‘got-you’ kind of thing. We’re intending to be visible with our bike uniforms, which are yellow and easily seen.
Then we really focus on making targeted arrests and taking less of a widespread approach, but more of who are the people that are causing the problems, who are the disruptors. And focus has been clear, since I started two years ago, on violence and vandalism. They do not have a role in First Amendment rights. We pride ourselves on a community that supports that, but we cannot tolerate violence and vandalism. So when we saw those actions then, and much like we did two nights ago, we move in and make arrests and submit those cases for prosecution.
Miller: It is one of your assistant chiefs who said in a court proceeding, that at some points federal law enforcement has actually been making things worse, been instigating. What exactly have Portland police officers seen?
Day: Well, it’s a challenge for all law enforcement when we are not necessarily bound by the same policies, the same training, the same guidelines. So when we observe action by other law enforcement agencies, it’s not uncommon to say, ‘well, I don’t know that that’s in line with how Portland police would do it. I don’t know how that’s, or if, that is consistent with Portland police training or Portland police response.’ But because of the independent nature of policing ‒ and this isn’t true just for federal law enforcement, this is true for local, state and county as well ‒ they serve the community or the constituencies and the leadership in their respective agencies.
So it’s difficult to be specific about the differences because we don’t know all of the background directives and policies that they’re operating under. What we do see is our learning around crowd management and our learning certainly since 2020 about this different approach of a more targeted approach, the use of the dialogue officers, a greater outreach, et cetera. So we can speak to that from our perspective. And I think that, once again, we’re being a leader in that nationally, as more and more agencies are looking to us to learn from that.
Miller: What are your biggest fears right now?
Day: My biggest fear is that Portlanders will give the narrative more energy than it has. There’s no way that any of us can stand and say that there hasn’t been any conflict or everything is just ‘butterflies and puppy dogs,’ as my son used to say. We definitely have challenges as a city and as a community. But this is a time where I believe we need to focus on how we can give back, how we can engage.
I understand Portlanders are frustrated. I understand that many times many of us feel powerless in some of these events. And instead of focusing on what we can’t do, we should be focusing on what we can do. We have a tremendous amount of needs. We have a tremendous amount of service agencies. We have huge opportunities and big hearts. And I think this is a time for Portlanders to lean in and let’s direct our energy and our focus to other places. The social media effort of the last few days, where people are posting pictures of the city, is a great outlet. And let’s not, in the words of Senator Murphy, ‘take the bait.’ Let’s not give them what they’re looking for, which is a conflict that’s not necessary…
Miller: Does that go in both directions? I mean, the message from civic leaders and political leaders, as you said, has been don’t take the bait. Does that go for law enforcement as well?
Day: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. We all have a responsibility in this. This isn’t a binary conversation. I think the challenge we’re facing is there are competing truths happening here where the facility exists, the facility has a role, and we can disagree about its purpose or its role or the activity happening there, as well as the people who want to express their disappointment or disagreement with it.
But how do we hold these competing truths and do so in a way that allows for us to have that public discourse but not have it trend to violence. And I think that’s true for both, for everybody involved, not just one side or the other.
Miller: Just to sharpen the question, let’s say that the troops are there on Sunday night for the first time. And if one protester throws a rock, what can you do in the Portland Police Bureau to prevent the National Guard from pepper spraying 300 people?
Day: Yeah, that’s certainly the complexity of this, Dave, that challenges all of us, because we all have that individual responsibility and that role. And I would hope that if Portland police are present and liaisoning with both the community and with either the guard or federal law enforcement, that we would be able to take the appropriate action.
For example, in the situation you just raised, [we would] make that selective arrest and not have it become more widespread. But certainly there is a lot of uncertainty in that. But I can commit to you, we’re doing our best to thread that needle.
Miller: Bob Day, thanks very much.
Day: Thanks, Dave. Take care.
Miller: That’s Bob Day. He is the chief of the Portland police bureau.
“Think Out Loud®” broadcasts live at noon every day and rebroadcasts at 8 p.m.
If you’d like to comment on any of the topics in this show or suggest a topic of your own, please get in touch with us on Facebook, send an email to thinkoutloud@opb.org, or you can leave a voicemail for us at 503-293-1983.
