Making outdoor dining changes permanent for Portland restaurants

In the early days of the pandemic, the city of Portland’s transportation department created programs to provide restaurants with outdoor seating that would have otherwise not been allowed. Some streets were partially blocked to accommodate dining spaces outside, which was in many cases the safest form of dine-in service. Now the department has been directed to prepare to make these special outdoor seating arrangements permanent. Safety, ADA compliance and private use of public spaces are among the issues that need to be worked out — and funded by the city council. We’re joined by the head of the Portland Department of Transportation, Chris Warner to hear more about these plans. And two restaurant owners share the role that outdoor dining has played in their businesses: Lisa Schroeder of Mother’s Bistro and Bar, and Carlo Lamagna of Magna.

The following transcript was created by a computer and edited by a volunteer:

Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB, I’m Dave Miller. Early on in the pandemic, Portland’s Bureau of Transportation announced emergency help for suffering businesses in the city. They offered free permits for restaurants to set up outdoor seating on streets and sidewalks. It was supposed to end in June, but PBOT made two big announcements recently. These programs will be extended through August, and a version of them could become permanent. For more on what these programs have meant and what they could look like going forward, Chris Warner joins us, he’s the director of the Portland Bureau of Transportation. And two Portland restaurant owners join us as well: Carlo Lamagna is a chef and owner at Magna Kusina, Lisa Schroeder is the executive chef and owner of Mother’s Bistro and Bar. Welcome to all three of you.

Lisa Schroeder: Thank you.

Chris Warner: Thank you.

Carlo Lamagna: Thanks for having us.

Miler: Chris Warner, can you first remind us how the pre and post pandemic rules regarding outdoor dining, outdoor seating changed? What happened during the pandemic that was different?

Warner: So, we initially had a program with sidewalk cafes and some street seats that were used by some businesses but not that well known. At PBOT we’re used to dealing with emergencies like landslides and snow and ice, but this was a real emergency for businesses throughout Portland. So we really streamlined the process, and really encouraged people, because people wanted to use outdoor space, to figure out ways to do that. So we had a very streamlined permit program, it was free of charge for businesses to use. It was really a way for Portlanders and for restaurant owners really to get by during the pandemic.

Miller: This was a kind of lifeline, as I noted. How many restaurant owners took advantage of this?

Warner: So we have about 1000 permits that were issued during the course of the pandemic. Many of those are still active. What the commissioner asked us to do is to extend the program, it was supposed to end June 30th, extend it through August 31st, but also work on a permanent program that can make sure that these spaces in the public right of way can be utilized by Portland businesses, and enjoyed by Portlanders year round, and into the future.

Miller: My understanding is that there are actually two different named programs here that are overlapping but actually distinct: Healthy Businesses Permits and the Street Plazas Program. What’s the difference?

Warner: The Healthy Businesses are permits that are given to an individual business, in terms of doing work in the right of way. With the Public Plazas Program, it is one that’s not necessarily by an individual business, but it can be a group of businesses in order to activate a wider space, and not just the parking spaces in front of an individual business, but really to activate more of the city. For instance, we have one called the Dream Street in Northeast Portland, and also there’s one out in Montavilla. We’ve been working with local businesses to make sure that we have that kind of public space that Portlanders can enjoy year round.

Miller: Lisa Schroeder, did you get a permit for outdoor seating once this program really kicked in?

Schroeder: We did.

Miller: And can you describe the setup you came up with?

Schroeder: Well, I had seen what other restaurants like mine had constructed downtown, and looked at some examples, and also considered some of the parameters regarding COVID, not having enclosed spaces, trying to have a lot of airflow. So we constructed a wood structure over four parking spots with a cover, but no sides.

Miller: How much did it cost you to set all that up?

Schroeder: A ton of money. Which is why I was very concerned when I heard that the business permits might not be renewed, over $5,000 at least, especially with the cost of wood currently. So I was very worried that I was going to be losing a lot of money if I had to deconstruct that.

Miller: So that’s one concern. What about actual business once you put that in? Did people want to eat outside in the structure as you set up?

Schroeder: I have to be honest, not so much to my surprise. Mother’s has the good fortune of having a lot of inside seats, which allowed us to put a lot of space between tables. There are many restaurants in Portland with only about 60 seats, and little room to spread out. I think the real benefit for the outdoor structures were the smaller restaurants, because in our case, while we did have a few people choose to sit outside, if they had a choice of inside or out, most went with in.

Miller: Carlo Lamagna, what about you? My understanding is that you too sought a permit for this program? Why?

Lamagna: For the very same reason that a lot of the smaller restaurants chose to go this route. I personally am the complete opposite of Mothers. I have 28 seats indoors. We have some covered seating that surrounds our restaurant. But the permit that we have, in coordination with other businesses along our street, which is Clinton, we were able to get that Street Plaza going, and it really opened up, gave us an opportunity to add just a few more seats to round us up to about 50, which is pretty amazing. I mean think about it, 28 seats indoors, that’s almost half of seats outside. And rain or shine, we’ve set it up to the point where people are filling up the seats, both indoors and outdoors. So it really has been a boon for us.

Miller: How did you think about the cost of the setup?

Lamagna: Well, I consider myself very, very, very fortunate to have an amazing landlord and amazing neighbors around our area. And we all kind of chipped in for both the permit, and for the structure that was built. In total, we spent about the same amount as Lisa did, running around $6,000 in total for the entire structure. But my structure is shared alongside our neighbor Dots, and it’s been pretty amazing. It’s been adding quite a bit of revenue for us. So yeah, we are definitely benefiting from the structure.

Miller: What kinds of conversations did you have with your neighbors, in terms of whether or not to go for this? Because pre-pandemic, one of the issues that I definitely remember hearing various business owners talk about was the importance of parking, which would be a question, say, when a new bike lane would go in. Some people would say no, we don’t want that here, because we want cars to be able to easily go around, because we live in such a car centric society. I’m just curious if you heard those conversations early on in the pandemic?

Lamagna: Oh for sure, we definitely had a lot of those conversations, and it was definitely a big deal for a lot of us along that little corridor, between 25th and 26th on Clinton, was that we were going to lose some parking spaces, but realizing also that the loss of five or six parking spaces was nothing compared to possibly closing a business.

Miller: And it was that stark to you? I mean that’s the way you saw it, it was that clear?

Lamagna: Yeah, personally, it definitely was that clear. The fact that we are a tiny restaurant, that we can add on that amount of seats alone, generates quite a large percentage of our sales. And of course, obviously with Portland weather being as difficult as it is sometimes, we did our best to make sure that we accommodated and took into account all these little factors.

Miller: Do you envision that people are going to want to eat in the outside version of your restaurant in February, if they don’t have to?

Lamagna: I mean if they don’t have to, I’m hoping that they still will. But if anything has proven me correct, it would be that January and February of this past year, when we reopened after our little holiday break, has proven to us that people are dining outdoors, and they’re actually enjoying it. We try to make it as comfortable as possible of course with heat lamps and all these various things. People look forward to it.

Miller: Chris Warner, this has been free for restaurant owners, free in terms of permits from the city. Obviously we just heard people spending $5,000-$6,000 to actually construct these outdoor seating areas, but that’s not money that’s going to the city. What are the costs for the city?

Warner: There’s a couple of costs that we look at. Obviously, the technical advice and the permitting fees are one piece. The other piece, particularly for PBOT, is the loss of parking, in terms of paid parking. We don’t get a lot of property tax, we are dependent on parking revenue and gas tax for all of our revenues. So that would be a loss if we did that.

What we’re trying to do is work through a permitting process in the future. What we would like to do is to gradually have a fee, and maybe use some additional rescue dollars in order to get us to a cost containment, or a cost recovery program. That would be our ultimate goal, working with business owners to make sure that it’s viable, both for them and for us, as we try to make those investments in city infrastructure.

Miller: Do you have a sense for how much revenue the city has foregone specifically from parking, that has been taken away because of these outdoor seating setups? I imagine it’s a hard number to know, because who’s to say people would have parked there anyway if they weren’t going to go to those businesses?

Warner: We’ve been lucky that the city council designated rescue funds for last year that covered our costs. We were looking at about $1.3 million dollars in parking revenue that we had to forego because of this. That’s the number that we have in terms of lost revenue from parking.

Miller: Lisa Schroeder, what has it been like to work with the Portland’s Bureau of Transportation on this over the last two years?

Schroeder: They have been amazing. They could not have made it any easier. I am so grateful. We did not have hoops to jump through. We did not have tons of paperwork to fill out. They made it absolutely effortless. Filled out a few pieces of paper, took some pictures of the structure, and within days we were approved. So I am ever so grateful that this did come to pass.

Miller: Do you speak so glowingly of other aspects of city bureaucracy?

Schroeder: Ha ha ha ha! No. But I will tell you in this case, PBOT really did rally, and really did help the restaurant community and the businesses. And they actually got an award for it I heard, from Travel Portland, for this effort. So it really did do a lot of good.

Miller: So as you noted, because of the particulars of your pretty large footprint at Mother’s, having the outdoor space was less important to your bottom line, to your business over the last two years. So what does that mean going forward? Now that a version of this program, if the city council approves it, will become permanent, will outdoor seating become permanent at Mother’s?

Schroder: There always was outdoor seating, but without cover. Now this has a cover. And I truly was very worried when this was about to expire on what we were going to do with the structure, because if we were going to have to start paying a monthly fee for those spots, I was really going to have to weigh the value of keeping them versus the revenue we get from people sitting in them. But now that they’re extending this through the summer, it is going to make a big difference for us, because even in the summer, there’s rain. And so this is a covered area where our guests can be outside if they choose to do so. And of course you know, in Portland it’s nice to be outside in the summer.

But I do want to make a note. My situation is different than Carlo, because we really couldn’t put heaters and all that in our structure, because we’re downtown, and we have a lot of issues, and I imagine he might have issues, with property damage. I just couldn’t see spending even more money on it than what we had. So ours doesn’t have heating, which would have made it maybe more palatable for people to dine outside with the natural elements.

Miller: Carlo, it seems like you want to jump in there.

Lamagna: I was just laughing because Lisa said property damage. Every night, we’re hauling everything back inside the restaurant. It is an extra effort to do everything. Obviously, there’s other factors that affect what we do, our shelter doubling as a bedroom for particular individuals, which is always funny. But it is what it is. We learned to deal with it, and that added extra work to create a hospitable and comfortable environment for everybody is important for us. So we go above and beyond.

Miller: Chris Warner, do you have a sense for how much this is going to cost for restaurant owners going forward?

Warner: We’re working through that in terms of what the staff costs will be. We do know the lost revenue in terms of parking, but we want to actually design a program that is pretty turnkey, that makes it as affordable for restaurant owners as possible. And that’s why we’re asking the city council to give us some money over the next three years in order to gradually put the fees in place. So our goal is to really work with business owners on what this program should look like, make it the most cost effective for us and for them, and really to create the Portland that we want to, in terms of public space.

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