Last month marked the beginning of a statewide ban on cellphones in Oregon schools. The executive order, issued by Oregon Gov. Tina Kotek, prohibits the use of personal devices such as phones, smart watches and earbuds during instructional hours, including lunchtime and between periods. School districts were to adopt policies by Oct. 31, 2025, and enforce the new rules beginning Jan. 1, 2026.
Grant High School in Northeast Portland adopted a phone-free policy in 2024. South Eugene High School began implementing its cell phone policy last month.
James Mcgee, principal of Grant High School, and Kee Zublin, principal of South Eugene High School, join us to give us more information on how parents, administrators, students and teachers are adjusting to the new policies.
Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.
Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. The statewide ban on cell phones in Oregon schools is now in full effect. An executive order by Gov. Tina Kotek prohibits the use of personal devices like phones, but also smartwatches and earbuds, during instructional hours – that includes lunchtime and between periods. Districts had to start enforcing these bans by January 1.
I’m joined now by two high school principals. Kee Zublin is at South Eugene High School, which recently implemented its ban. James McGee is a principal at Grant High School in Northeast Portland, which has had a ban in place now for about two years. Welcome to you both.
James McGee: Thank you.
Kee Zublin: Thank you.
Miller: Before we talk about the bans themselves, I’d love to just get a sense for what cell phone use had been like before your respective bans. So James McGee, first – if I were walking through hallways, looking at lunch or peeking into different classes before the ban, what might I have seen?
McGee: Well, we had many students that were actively on their cell phones. Many were being distracted by the notifications that were coming in through their cell phones. You would see more cell phone use in the hallways. So students would take breaks and sometimes extended breaks to get on their cell phones.
Miller: They would say, “Hey, can I go use the bathroom?” And then they’d look at their phones in the hallways?
McGee: Yes, yes, and it was more than just looking at their phones in the hallways. Sometimes they may even stop to do a TikTok video. They may call their friends or send messages to their friends. So what should have been a three to five minute break sometimes would turn into 20 to 30 minutes.
Miller: Most of a class.
McGee: Yes, much of the class.
Miller: Much of the class. Hmm. You were nodding a little bit there, Kee. What did you see? And I’m curious not just how frequent it was, but what kinds of things kids were doing most often on their phones.
Zublin: Yeah, it’s similar … definitely social media. What James is alluding to, they were using their cell phones to coordinate connecting with each other in the halls. So, one of the really pleasant side effects of this cell phone ban has been much quieter hallways. But just having their noses and their cell phones when they really need to be interacting with each other, that’s what we saw. And, coming back from the pandemic, student mental health and prosocial interactions were really on our radar as something we needed to promote and develop. And the cell phones were more of a barrier than anything to that.
Miller: Well, that’s an important point to keep in mind here. So am I right that the students who are in your high schools now, were in what, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh grades or so during the pandemic?
Zublin: That’s right.
McGee: That’s correct.
Miller: So James, how did you all decide at Grant to ban cell phones two years ago? This was before the governor said you had to.
McGee: Yes. So, I was a school counselor prior to being an administrator, at a different high school. And I would see kids on their cell phones at that time and going into classes just to pull out a kid. Often, I’m seeing kids looking down. By the time I became a principal, to a large degree, the behaviors have been normalized, even to the point where I would be meeting with a student in my office and the student would say, “Mr. McGee, hold your point,” as they’re answering the phone. And I would say to them, “Really, you’re going to answer your phone right now?”
Miller: This was when you were the principal?
McGee: Yes, it happened when I was a counselor, vice principal and principal. And they said, “but it’s my parent.” And sometimes that conversation would go like this: “Yeah, yeah, mom? No, we had spaghetti last night. Can we have something different?” So we actually had parents who would just call their kids throughout the school day.
Miller: Parents calling their kids?
McGee: Right, because it had been normalized.
Miller: That’s wild to me.
McGee: Yes. And so …
Miller: Because one of the arguments that I had heard, bought by parents about these bans, is what if there’s an emergency? What if there’s a school shooting or some dire situation and I need to get in touch with my kids, or vice versa? Asking about dinner is not an emergency.
McGee: No, it’s not. You brought up school shootings and the authorities have said to us, law enforcement has said to us, the last thing you want during that time is for students to be on their cell phones. So I totally understand the need or the desire to want to speak to your kid to make sure that they’re fine during that time, but it is in everyone’s best interest if we keep kids off of their devices.
As far as emergencies are concerned, other emergencies, just like it was back in our day when we were kids, students have access to the phones in our main office. If parents need to get a hold of their kid, they can call the main office and we get that message to the kid immediately.
Miller: What kind of system did you actually set up? Because there are various pouches, lockers and ways to not have a phone in someone’s hand. What did you do at Grant?
McGee: So initially the first year – that was the school year ‘23-‘24 – it was off and away. We provided each classroom with these devices where kids would come in and put their phones in these pouches that were hanging near the door. It did not work well. I think during that year, I took between 400 and 500 cell phones from kids.
Miller: Meaning, they were supposed to put them in the pouch, but you would be walking around the halls and you took 400 or 500 phones that should have been pouched but weren’t?
McGee: Absolutely, absolutely. Knowing that it wasn’t working, we decided to go a different route. So we went with something called Yondr. These are pouches where kids keep them, but they lock. Students at the beginning of the school day will put their cell phones in those locking pouches, and then at the end of their school day, they would be able to unlock them. We have those devices in our main office. Then at the end of the school day, we move them to the front doors, and students will unlock their pouches and then have their cell phones. And with that, we saw a much better result when it comes to students being offered their cell phones.
Miller: What about South Eugene High School, Kee Zublin? What system have you adopted in the last few months?
Zublin: Yeah, so the district formed a committee in the fall and certainly looked at that option; although it’s rather expensive, and we’re in the process of weathering some budget cuts right now.
Miller: And this is the classic unfunded mandate, right? The state, Salem, the governor, said you have to do this, but we’re not gonna give you more money districts to do this.
Zublin: And we always wish we had more resources. It requires resources to police the Yondr pouches, too, and to unlock them and all of that. So the system that was adopted in 4J is some combination of, at the high school level, your phone is packed and/or parked. What that means at South Eugene High School is that they’re parked while you’re in class in a cell phone hotel and then packed throughout the rest of the day.
Miller: It’s called a cell phone hotel? [Laughs]
Zublin: It’s called a cell hotel, yeah. And it’s a carryable case in case of emergency. If there’s a need to evacuate or something, the teacher can grab that – that goes with the students. And it’s very similar to what James described in terms of the initial fear that parents expressed about not being able to reach their kids. It’s amazing how many kids are on the phone with their mother when you catch them on their phone. It’s invariably talking to their mom about something. Now, we have found that contrary to everybody’s fears, the old system that worked for us is working now.
Miller: You mean people who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s?
Zublin: Right, middle aged folks who called from the office and who had notes run from the office to them. Those things are working.
Miller: Earlier this month, lawmakers had a hearing in Salem to get an update on the implementation of this ban. The president of the Oregon Education Association, the state’s largest teachers union, shared the results of a survey sent out to members in K-12 schools. Nearly 600 educators responded to the survey. Eighty-eight percent of them, according to the head of the OEA, said that they see clear benefits. Only 6% of these teachers in the union reported mixed results. Only 1% reported just a negative impact.
So overwhelmingly positive numbers. It’s rare to see a survey where 88% of anybody for anything ... So yeah, it’s been good. What are you hearing from teachers?
Zublin: It’s positive. We are at the very early stages of implementation so it’s not perfect, particularly in the halls. We’re still trying to get a handle on cell phones in the halls …
Miller: But maybe similar to what James was talking about when they first implemented this two years ago.
Zublin: I think so. Yeah, teachers are sharing that they’re getting more eye contact from students. They’re having students interact with one another more in class, so it’s been pretty positive. The biggest fear that I think any of us have had is the power struggles that would ensue. That’s what I was really not looking forward to. And to my pleasant surprise, I have found that there haven’t been a lot of power struggles and it’s pretty straightforward. We say it’s the governor’s rule. We’ve all got to follow this.
Miller: Oh, and that’s something you can say that James, you couldn’t say. Two years ago, you couldn’t say, “Hey, this is not us. It’s not PPS. It’s not me, it’s the governor.” You can’t say that, but you want to weigh in on this power struggle question.
McGee: Right. There were power struggles. The power struggles before we implemented this policy were between teachers and students. And it was quite the power struggle. By adopting this policy, it removed the power struggle from the teacher and student and put it on administrators. So, the workload increased for the administrators at Grant High School, but it decreased for our teachers. Teachers have reported back to me that they’re seeing an extra 10 to 15 minutes of instructional time during a period, and at Grant High School …
Miller: That’s a huge number of minutes, especially in a state where we’re known for not having enough instructional minutes.
McGee: Absolutely, yes, and over the course of a year, that’s hundreds of additional instructional hours.
Miller: So just to be clear, what is making that difference? When you say teachers are telling you that they may have 10 to 15 minutes more of instructional time in a single class, what would have sucked that time away in the past?
McGee: Teachers [were] identifying the student with their cell phone and then often the kids were reluctant to hand over the phone to the teacher. The teacher is trying to deal with the situation prior to calling an administrator. And if you’re doing that several times during a period, you’re losing instructional minutes, which, again, like I said, over the course of a school year, can amount to hundreds of hours.
For the last few years, I meet with all of our students at registration in small groups to go over the rules and policy. And this is front and center. I am very clear with the students on the policy and accountability measures if we catch them with their cell phones.
Miller: James, I mentioned that legislative hearing earlier this month. I was struck by some comments by Paige Battle, who’s a librarian at your school who we’ve worked with a number of times for great partnerships with Literary Arts shows. She said this to lawmakers: “Students are given time at the start of their English classes to do silent sustained reading. And without a phone or screen to distract them, they are turning to books.”
She said she’s seen a nearly 15% increase in book circulation this school year, which seems to me like a great knock-on effect. Less time looking at phones, more time reading seems like a good recipe for society in general, for all of us. Are you seeing other knock-on effects from this ban?
McGee: No, absolutely. They’re also turning to each other ...
Miller: So their actual physical bodies, talking, instead of … because they might say, I was communicating with my friends already just on the screen.
McGee: We’re seeing greater peer-to-peer engagement.
Miller: And what’s an example of that? What are you actually seeing that lets you say that?
McGee: Well, in the classroom, the small groups, everyone is participating. The cell phones gave some of our students sort of an easy excuse to disengage. Another place where we’re seeing it is the lunchroom. So I worked the lunch line and it got a lot louder in our lunchroom.
Miller: Which to you is a good sign?
McGee: It’s a great sign. Kids talking to each other … like three or four months into this, there’s a group of boys at a table and it was getting pretty loud, and I got a little nervous. So I walked over there and I found that they were debating. And one of the students said, “I don’t care what you say, LeBron is not going to win another championship.” [Laughter] And it just reminded me of the conversations that we had back in my day. I mean, I would have been saying something like, Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. But it’s those same types of conversations. Kids have reported back to me that they feel that there is greater peer-to-peer engagement, and teachers have said to me, teacher-to-student engagement as well.
Miller: So, do you think that the students themselves are saying that they’re happier? Or you’re just seeing them act the way you did when you were a kid and so you assume this is better?
McGee: Both.
Miller: OK.
McGee: I have students who have come to me and said that they do think it’s better. Now, they still would like to have access to their phones, but students have reported that they feel that this allows them to engage with their schoolwork more. And we’re hearing that from parents as well.
Miller: Kee, am I right that at your high school, students – at least some of them – can go outside the campus for lunch? And if they do, they could do that with their cell phones?
Zublin: Taking their phones.
Miller: So have you seen an increase in kids leaving campus that you attribute to wanting access to cell phones?
Zublin: Yes, we definitely have. Our lunch participation is slightly down and the cafeteria is a little quieter. What is happening in a lot of cases is students getting their lunch and heading off campus with their phone and their friends, which a colleague of mine pointed out does have one silver lining which is they’re outside at least. So that’s good. [Laughter]
Miller: They’re not looking at the grass. They’re looking at their screen, but they’re in proximity to the natural world.
Zublin: Yeah, that’s definitely a big difference between how it’s going at Grant and how it’s going in some other school districts where we went with off and away.
Miller: James, I want to turn to the repercussions piece of this. The Portland School Board voiced some concerns over the summer about searches of students or the possibility of more enforcement focused on students of color. How have you guarded against that?
McGee: The rule is for everyone. The rule is for everyone and we’re clear about that. We’re not searching students. We are asking students to see their cell phone and visually see them put the cell phone in their pouches. We’re not searching students. But I have high expectations for all of my students. So this policy is just not for our white students or our Black students, our freshmen or seniors, it’s for all of our students. I’m one who believes that when you ask students to do something, typically they’ll follow through. Yes, there was some pushback, but our students lived up to our expectations.
Miller: Has this ban affected the way you think about each of your own uses of phones or other devices when students are around? Because I feel like I’m always aware; we’ve had a lot of conversations on this show over the years, maybe increasingly about the dangers of social media or about kids’ use of these technologies, but it’s easy to forget in those conversations that adults, we use these phones often just as much.
I’m curious, Kee, if you watch, for example, yourself more in terms of phone use because there’s a ban on kids using them?
Zublin: I do. I try not to use my phone in the hallways or in common spaces in front of the kids. I answered a work phone call. Part of it is that it’s part of our work. We get text messages from our bosses, phone calls and whatnot, and I had answered one of those work phone calls in front of a student and they called me out. And I said, “fair enough,” and I found a quiet spot to take that phone call.
So yeah, I think that we all need to sort of be mindful of this. All of the grown-ups in the system as well need to model this expectation for students.
Miller: James, what about you?
McGee: No, absolutely. And to your point, yes, I’m monitoring my own cell phone usage.
Miller: You don’t have spaghetti conversations?
McGee: But students are holding me accountable. We have our work phones, and if it goes off or if they see me on the phone, they’re calling me out on it. And we’ve also asked our teachers to be mindful of their cell phone usage as well. Because as you just pointed out, it’s easy for all of us to fall into this trap of just looking down at our cell phones, even for our teachers in between periods. Their kid may be sick and they’re just checking in, and those types of things do happen. But we’ve asked all the adults in the building to be mindful of their own cell phone usage.
Miller: James and Kee, thanks very much.
McGee: Thank you.
Zublin: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you.
Miller: James McGee is a principal of Grant High School in Northeast Portland. Kee Zublin is a principal of South Eugene High School.
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