This Oregon State University professor was a cultural consultant on Disney’s ‘Moana 2′

Disney’s long-awaited sequel to its smash hit “Moana” is already one of the top-grossing movies of the year after its premiere at the box office just two weeks ago. Moana, however, is not your typical Disney princess. In fact, she forcefully pushes back on that characterization during an exchange with Maui, the Polynesian demigod, with whom she teams up on journeys of adventure and self-discovery.

For “Moana 2,” Disney once again sought guidance from the Oceanic Cultural Trust, a team of scholars, artists and other experts who hail from Hawaii, Samoa, Tonga and other Pacific Islander communities. They helped ensure the films’ faithful representations of Pacific Islander cultural details and traditions such as wayfinding, an ancient form of ocean navigation still practiced today. Patricia Fifita, an assistant professor in the Department of Ethnic Studies at Oregon State University and Indigenous Pacific Islander of Tongan heritage, joins us to share her experience as a cultural consultant on “Moana 2,” and her efforts to develop a K-12 Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander studies curriculum for use in Oregon schools.

Note: The following transcript was transcribed digitally and validated for accuracy, readability and formatting by an OPB volunteer.

Dave Miller: This is Think Out Loud on OPB. I’m Dave Miller. Disney’s long-awaited sequel to its smash hit “Moana” opened two weeks ago. It is already one of the top grossing movies of the year. Like the first installment, the sequel revolves around the intrepid heroine, who set sail from her fictional island home in the South Pacific and teams up with the Polynesian demigod, Maui, on a journey of adventure and self discovery. For “Moana 2,” Disney once again sought guidance from a team of scholars, artists and other experts from Pacific Islander communities. They helped ensure that the films would include respectful representations of their cultures.

Patricia Fifita was one of those experts. She’s an assistant professor of ethnic studies at Oregon State University and an Indigenous Pacific Islander of Tongan heritage. She joins us now. It’s great to have you on Think Out Loud.

Patricia Fifita: It’s wonderful to be here.

Miller: Disney had a decades-long track record of exoticizing non-white cultures in ways that relied on or often perpetuated all kinds of racist stereotypes. Given that, what went through your mind, I think more than a decade ago, when you first heard that the studio was going to be making a whole movie focused on Pacific Islanders?

Fifita: For me, as a Pacific Islander, scholar and then also as a mother, it’s something that I get a little bit nervous about. I was nervous at the time, wondering if our stories would be told appropriately, would they be representative of the diversity of the Pacific? Knowing that the film was going to be focusing on Polynesian demigod Maui at some point in time, that was another area of worry, too, that I wasn’t sure whether or not it would be, again, an accurate or inappropriate representation of Maui.

Miller: Were there specific tropes that you thought, let’s say that the Disney of old would have focused on in ways that would be offensive?

Fifita: Sure, I think one of the more dominant stereotypes and representations of Pacific people – one of the characters that’s been long perpetuated, especially through film, is one of the female characters being represented as sort of like the dusky maiden or the hula girl trope. And that was one thing that I think a lot of us were nervous [about], that the female character, and in this case, Moana, would fall into that and also into what Disney is known for with the princess story type as well. We were a little bit nervous about that.

Miller: It’s striking that in both movies, I mean, Moana literally says, “I’m not a princess.”  Maui calls her a princess and she’s like, no, that’s not what I am. They heard that concern, I suppose. And that’s not just a concern about this one movie. It’s more a concern about a way to portray femininity more broadly, I suppose.

Fifita: Right. And I think that’s one thing that I was excited to see in the first “Moana,” the strength of her character, the role that she had as a leader within the community and her willingness to embark on a journey of self discovery, despite what perhaps her community and even members of her family had other ideas for. So, I was really excited to see that role expand and wanted to represent such a strong female character.

Miller: Where were you when you saw “Moana” for the first time?

Fifita: I was in Hawaii. And so there was a lot of different kind of energy around the film. Many members of the Pacific Islander community were apprehensive about what the story … how it might unfold and Disney’s portrayal of our stories, how that would unfold. Then there was also excitement because this would be the first time that many of us would hear some of the music that we heard in the “Moana” film on a big screen like this. So there was just a lot of energy swirling around.

Miller: What was your reaction to seeing it for the first time?

Fifita: I have to say the first moments when, I think the song is called “Tulou Tagaloa,” over the opening credits played, it was an emotional feeling for me, because the music was so beautiful, and it was sung by a Pacific Islander music and dance group called Te Vaka. And it was a really special moment. Then the excitement grew from there.

I would have to say too, the critique is also always part of it too. For me, especially as an ethnic studies professor, but that was a real highlight, just the opening credits and hearing that really beautiful music.

Miller: I’d love to hear everything from you today, including that critique. But let’s listen to a song from the new movie. It’s called “Nuku O Kaiga.” What should we know about this before we hear it?

Fifita: Well, in the “Moana 2″ story, Moana is embarking on this journey, and it’s a call from her ancestors to expand her explorations and to unite all of Oceania. So the song is playing at a point where the different groups of people representing the diversity of the ocean, Oceania, are coming to the island and it’s a song of welcome. And although it’s in Tokelauan and I’m Tongan, many of the words are very similar. So I sat down with my dad and said, let’s listen to the song. And it’s essentially a song of welcome and celebration, and representative of, I feel like, the hospitality that’s often shared when Pacific communities welcome guests and honor guests.

Miller: Let’s have a listen.

[”Nuku O Kaiga” from “Moana 2″ playing, performed by Te Vaka]

O ma o

Omai o

O ma o

Manaia o tenei potopotoga

Omai o (E lagona)

Hikihiki ki luga te fiafia (Haoloto)

O ma o (Ia)

Manaia o nuku potopotoga (Fakataga nuku o kaiga)

Omai o (Hikihiki, te malaga, ki luga te manaia)

Hokotaga Te tai o kaiga (E manuia)

O ma o

Manaia o tenei potopotoga (Hokotaga nuku o kaiga)

Omai o (E lagona, haoloto)

Hikihiki ki luga te fiafia (Ki luga te manaia; te malaga manuia)

O ma o

Manaia o nuku potopotoga (Hokotaga nuku o kaiga)

Omai o …

[Song fades out]

Miller: Did your father like the song?

Fifita: He absolutely loved it. Yeah. A lot of the music in the film was just really, really exciting to hear. It was definitely a very joyful moment for my family to hear the music in the film.

Miller: What do you think the producers got right in the first movie when it came out, in terms of representation of Pacific Islander, Polynesian culture and myths?

Fifita: I think it’s important to note that Pacific Islanders are storytellers, and our myths and legends, they evolve, change and shift. And many of our stories are shared and some are different across the Pacific Ocean. But one thing that I thought was a really strong storyline and message with the first “Moana” film was that Moana [had] this moment of self discovery, of understanding who her ancestors were, this reawakening essentially of ancestral knowledge was a really empowering moment for Moana that gave her the strength, but also the confidence to embark on a journey like she did.

I also thought it was really great to see, again, the strong female characters there, and also the depth and the nuance to the characters Te Fiti and Te Kā. There’s complexity in her story and I thought that was a really beautiful story. And also her relationship with Te Fiti and Te Kā was really neat. And of course, the Maui character, he came in and just brought everything to life and it was funny, it was the trickster. That was fun to see as well.

Miller: Where do you think they could have done a better job?

Fifita: I think that with anything, with any storytelling – especially understanding that Disney can take full creative license to tell the story at the end of the day – I think that there’s some story, there’s some stereotypes that remain. I think in the Maui character. A lot of the Pacific Islander community took issue with his size and the way that he looked. And then also their interactions with one another. There seemed to be lacking depth in Moana’s story as well. It was just her and I think a lot of folks wondered, “Where are her siblings?” That’s a really important part of Pacific Island culture too, is our families and how close knit we are. So, her kind of on this lone journey seemed a bit odd. It seemed like perhaps she would have companions with her.

Miller: And it makes perfect sense in terms of, not just Disney, but a kind of a western myth of the hero goes out and does his thing. I mean, you’re alone when you do that. So you can see why they would make that decision and the tensions, I suppose, between a gigantic corporation studio and an Indigenous culture, or just a specific culture that’s very different from a particular western myth.

Fifita: Absolutely.

Miller: Although it is worth saying … and this doesn’t give anything away for “Moana 2″ because you find this out very early on, that a sibling relationship with an absolutely adorable little sister is, I think, the most emotionally salient part of the new movie. They did add a sibling for the sequel.

Fifita: I agree that was one of my favorite parts of the “Moana 2″ film, and understanding their relationship and connection there, I think was really important. And I think it resonates with a lot of people. So I was really glad that they added that.

Miller: How did you become involved as a cultural consultant for the sequel?

Fifita: Well, initially, I was approached by a friend of mine who was part of the first film’s Cultural Trust. And they had shared that Disney was interested in wanting to tell more stories about Moana’s adventures. So for me, as a Tongan scholar, they had asked me to share a little bit about Tongan culture and history, the settlement of the islands, the histories there, and also some of the ancient trade routes and connections between the islands. So I thought it was a good opportunity to share a little bit more about Tongan history specifically, and being in a conversation and a critical dialogue around the film, knowing that so many people would see it, including my son. I knew that Disney, again, at the end of the day, will take it where they want to take it, but at least to be part of that conversation and critical dialogue I thought was really important.

Miller: What do you see as the most important information that you gave to the producers?

Fifita: I did emphasize some specific cultural aesthetics that were representative [of] Tongan, around the shape and design of the vakas, or the long distance sea going canoes. I also, with my background in ethnobotany, was excited to share about the different types of plants that would most likely be on the ships or on these vakas, these massive long distance forging canoes, to share a little bit about what are known as the canoe plants which were introduced by Pacific Islanders into the islands that they settled.

Miller: To bring sustenance or a lot of other things with them, to bring culture and civilization on a boat to a faraway island.

Fifita: Absolutely. And help establish new communities and societies.

Miller: Let’s have a listen to part of another song from the new movie. It’s sung by Maui, or Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson. It’s called “Can I Get a Chee Hoo?’’ What is a Chee Hoo before we hear the song?

Fifita: So a Chee Hoo is quintessential Pacific Islander yell or cheer of excitement, joy. I mean, it can also be said to call out a challenge to someone, but it is very quintessentially Pacific Islander.

Miller: Let’s have a listen to part of the song.

[”Can I Get a Chee Hoo” playing from “Moana 2,” performed by Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson]

Here’s the thing: you’re down in the dumps

You think you’re way off your game

But you can turn it around

Come on, remember your name

Don’t waste all this energy

‘Cause you got the remedy

And I know your legacy

Uhh!

You’ve got greatness inside

and you just gotta believe

You think you don’t have the tricks

But they’re right up your sleeve

These waters are threatening

But you bring the reckoning

So drop all the fear and the questioning

I need a

Can I get a Chee Hoo?!

Who are you?

Who are you?

Who are you gonna be?

You’re gonna

You’re gonna

A-make some history

Come on-a

Moana

Go get your destiny

Can I get a

Can I get a

Can I get a Chee Hoo?!

You gotta

You wanna

You needa level up

Go show ‘em …

[Song fades out]

Miller: You said this is a quintessential Pacific Islander phrase: Chee Hoo. I’m wondering if Moana is recognizably from a specific part of this immense area? I mean, we can lump together and I think the census does now, the Native Hawaiian, a Pacific Islander, but in those groups are just thousands and thousands of different islands. And I imagine dozens of overlapping, but in their own ways, distinct cultures. Who is Moana in that? And does she from a recognizable culture or just an amalgamation of them?

Fifita: Well, Disney consulted a large group of different Pacific Islander peoples and I think it’s important to add some context there. The Pacific Islands, Oceania is full of very rich, vast and diverse cultures and island nations. And so I think that was probably a really tall task for Disney to really be specific about which cultures are representing, which is also something that could raise some concern. The idea of kind of lumping the different cultures together and not highlighting the unique distinctiveness of the different groups, which is often done.

But something that is notable in the second film is referred to as this long pause, that I think Disney had woven into the story. And this long pause is often referred to by anthropologists and archaeologists as this time period when the islands of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa were settled by Austronesian-speaking folks that migrated in and then eventually settled. And after a period of about 1,000 years, became specifically Polynesian people. That’s when the culture, the distinct culture developed. So the reference to the long pause, and then also some of the cultural aesthetics and the architecture of the fales or the traditional meeting gathering places and homes, a lot of those are reminiscent of Tongan and Samoan aesthetics.

But again, there’s so many different cultures that are woven in to tell this story. And I think “Moana 2″ also does a really wonderful job of highlighting this effort or desire to unite the diversity of islands. And you can really see there’s a beautiful display of vakas, which was in Tongan, these seafaring canoes. They all gather at this one point and you can see distinctly, there’s a canoe that looks similar to traditional canoes from the Solomon Islands and from Fiji. So it’s really wonderful that the film makes an effort to highlight that diversity in the imagery, but also in the message of the film.

Miller: You mentioned your son, you have a five-year-old son. What was it like to see this new movie with him?

Fifita: Well, he’s totally obsessed with Maui. He loved the first film. So I was really excited to see the second film. It was just a moment of pure joy, really, just watching him watch the film. He was laughing the whole time. He was naming the different characters. And he was sitting next to my father, too, who was pretty much doing the same thing.

Miller: Three generations.

Fifita: Three generations together watching the film. And then Maui has a special sort of connection to our family as well. And so that was fun to be able to see Maui on the screen and my son to connect to him in that way.

Miller: What’s a special connection your family has to Maui?

Fifita: So in our tradition, our Tongan traditions, in our creation myth and story, Maui the demigod is from our village of Kōloa on Oahu. My father grew up hearing these stories about Maui’s adventures around where he grew up on his island. So we grew up hearing stories about Maui and it was just exciting to see him come to life in this awesome way.

Miller: Let’s listen to part of one more song. This one has a few different voices. This is called “Manu Vavau.”

[”Manu Vavau” playing from “Moana 2,” performed by Dwayne Johnson, Opetaia Foa’i and Rachel House]

Aue, aue, le faigata

Ua pa’u fa’anoanoa

Aue, aue, fa’ataga ola

Lena La’u talosaga

(E manu malo)

Tele tele mana e o te vavau (Vavau)

Tau ke tu ke Manumalo

Ke Manumalo

Aue, aue, mana e o te vavau

Tau ke tu ke Manumalo

Ke Manumalo …

[Song fades out]

Miller: What does this song mean to you?

Fifita: I think the words and the music are really moving. And in the film, I believe this is the scene where Moana’s ancestors are gathering around her and through their collective mana, their spiritual power and strength are bringing her back to life. And this was probably one of the most moving parts of the film for me. It also highlighted the beautiful relationship that Moana has with Gramma Tala. In the first film, we saw this intergenerational sharing of knowledge, learning and connection, and Gramma Tala returns as the manta ray. Then we see also, I think it’s a whale shark that appears as one of her ancestors.

I think this is really beautiful because it highlights this, the traditions of Pacific peoples and how their ancestors still play a really important role in their lives, and our belief systems support that our ancestors are still with us. And so I thought that was a really powerful moment.

Miller: I wanna switch gears a little bit, but in some ways, everything we’re talking about is actually related here. You were awarded a grant by the Oregon Department of Education to develop a Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander studies curriculum for K-12 students in the state. My understanding is that work is still in the very early stages. But can you give us a sense for what you already know that you want Oregon K-12 students to learn?

Fifita: I’m so excited about this opportunity because in Oregon, we have a legislation – I think it’s the first piece of legislation nationally – that disaggregates Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander from the AAPI …

Miller: Asian American Pacific Islanders.

Fifita: Asian American Pacific Islander. And it’s created an educational plan specific to these groups, which is really significant because Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander populations and students are historically marginalized. Which means many things, but one of them is that oftentimes our histories do not feature into the conventional K-12 history or social studies curriculum. So to be able to develop a curriculum that tells these stories in nuanced and critical ways, and brings to life these histories, I think is really important but also really empowering.

And I think some of the messages in the “Moana” film are really important because it has this message of empowerment. In the first “Moana” film, we hear Moana say, “We were navigators!” It’s just this moment of understanding that her ancestors were capable of great things. And I think being able to have in the K-12 system curriculum that highlights this history, and acknowledges the value of these peoples and their stories, our people and our stories, is really important. So I’m excited to be a part of it.

Miller: What do you see as the connections between that kind of curriculum development and the work you’re doing as a member of the Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander Student Success Plan Advisory Council?

Fifita: Yeah. So with the work with the council, we’re developing The Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander Success Plan, which hopefully will inform various ways in which the curriculum will be implemented, and give tips and support for implementing support for Pacific Islander students on all levels. So whether it be support with issues of lack of attendance or poor graduation rates, it’s more of a holistic approach to ensuring that these student populations have the support they need to be successful and also to feel a sense of belonging in the school system.

Miller: “Moana 2″ ends. There’s the credits and in the middle of the credits, there’s a little bit of a teaser which makes it seem like there’s more to come, there’s more money to be squeezed from Disney’s intellectual property there. Is “Moana 3″ in the works right now?

Fifita: I really have no idea. That was exciting for me to see, too, because it sounds like it’s leading to something. But I can’t confirm, I really don’t know.

Miller: Patricia Fifita, it was great talking to you. Thanks so much.

Fifita: Thank you.

Miller: Patricia Fifita is an assistant professor of ethnic studies at Oregon State University and a member of the Oregon Department of Education’s Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander Student Success Plan Advisory Council.

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